P11d form - is this a legal requirement for a Director of a Ltd Co?

fuddyduddy12

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question but maybe someone will know.

I am going to open a Ltd Company soon and I will be sole Director. Is it now a legal requirement that I submit a P11d (or rather that my company submits it on my behalf as Director)? I am getting confusing answers from different accountants.

Also, what happens if I don't submit a P11d?

Thanks.

BoGoF

Assuming you have benefits in kind, then yes. How else are you going to pay tax on them?

fuddyduddy12

BoGoF wrote: »

Assuming you have benefits in kind, then yes. How else are you going to pay tax on them?

Do I have to do a P11d if I have expenses like Professional Liability insurance/IR35 insurance, travel expenses (to my normal place of work) etc? This is the answer I cannot seem to get out of accountants. I have had 3 different answers from 3 different accountants!

antrobus

You need to file a form P11D or P9D for each employee to whom you've provided expenses and benefits during the tax year, and one form P11D(b) to declare the overall amount of Class 1A National Insurance contributions (NICs) due on all the expenses and benefits you've provided.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/exb/overview/forms.htm

If you file your P11D(b) late, you’ll be charged a penalty of £100 per 50 employees for each month or part month your return is outstanding after the 6 July deadline.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/problems-inspections/annual-return-late.htm

antrobus

fuddyduddy12 wrote: »

Do I have to do a P11d if I have expenses like Professional Liability insurance/IR35 insurance, travel expenses (to my normal place of work) etc? This is the answer I cannot seem to get out of accountants. I have had 3 different answers from 3 different accountants!

If you laid all the accountants in the world end-to-end ....

Basically what goes on the form P11D are either;

- things that you (the director) have personally paid for and which the employer (your company) has then reimbursed to you, and

- things that the company has paid for which you might have derived some personal benefit from

and HMRC wants this info so it can make its mind up whether there's anything there that they can tax as a benefit in kind. There are often things that fall in either category that don't give rise to any personal tax liability, and different accountants often take different views as to whether or not its worthwhile putting them down on the P11D in the first place.

fuddyduddy12

antrobus wrote: »

If you laid all the accountants in the world end-to-end ....

Basically what goes on the form P11D are either;

- things that you (the director) have personally paid for and which the employer (your company) has then reimbursed to you, and

- things that the company has paid for which you might have derived some personal benefit from

and HMRC wants this info so it can make its mind up whether there's anything there that they can tax as a benefit in kind. There are often things that fall in either category that don't give rise to any personal tax liability, and different accountants often take different views as to whether or not its worthwhile putting them down on the P11D in the first place.

Thank you! But I assume as a Company Director I have to submit a P11D even if there is a "nil" to declare, is that right (i.e. I have not derived any personal benefit from any expenses declared such as those I listed above)?

Any

You are getting diferent answers because it all "depends".

You must submit P11D for every employee earning over £8.5k and directors if you provided them any taxable benefits.

Now - if you have a company car also used for private use (from home to work is 99% of time private use, unless you can prove that home is your place of work so drive to office is business use), fuel or any expenses that are not 100% for business use then you definitely do need this.

Cover of expenses (use of company credit card, reimbursements, home phone etc) also needs to be detailed, but then you send HMRC separate letter as employee explaining it was 100% for business use and they will not tax them. Or you can ask for dispensation notice on these, but it is lenghty process and the HRMC office has to be satisfied that you have controls in place that no private use will slip through the net.

We would need more detail of what exactly the company pays for you to be able to advise in more detail.

fuddyduddy12

Any wrote: »

You are getting diferent answers because it all "depends".

You must submit P11D for every employee earning over £7.5k and directors if you provided them any taxable benefits.

Now - if you have a company car also used for private use (from home to work is 99% of time private use, unless you can prove that home is your place of work so drive to office is business use), fuel or any expenses that are not 100% for business use then you definitely do need this.

Cover of expenses (use of company credit card, reimbursements, home phone etc) also needs to be detailed, but then you send HMRC separate letter as employee explaining it was 100% for business use and they will not tax them. Or you can ask for dispensation notice on these, but it is lenghty process and the HRMC office has to be satisfied that you have controls in place that no private use will slip through the net.

We would need more detail of what exactly the company pays for you to be able to advise in more detail.

It will only be for my Professional Liability Insurance (which is obviously only needed for work) and accountancy fees (likewise). I don't think I can claim travel expenses as I will be working at the same office even though it is a short contract (3 months).

Any

Have a look here... there is the legislation behind it..
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/480.pdf

Any

fuddyduddy12 wrote: »

It will only be for my Professional Liability Insurance (which is obviously only needed for work) and accountancy fees (likewise). I don't think I can claim travel expenses as I will be working at the same office even though it is a short contract (3 months).

Those are both expenses of the company...?! Why would you put them on P11D? Those are expenses of the company, so they will be corporation tax deductable (or not), nothing to do with you as an employee or director?
I am not sure I understand what are you trying to achieve? Do you have any idea what Ltd company means?

So you are going to cover the car, fuel etc all from your own pocket, not through the company?

chrismac1

Having won business from all the local larger accountants, it's 50-50 whether they disclose things like travel which give rise to no BIK, or don't bother. Personally in these cases I tick the box on the End Of Year Submission saying "P11d not required" because:

1. This saves me time on what is just "work for the cat".
2. This stops needless letters and other hassle between HMRC and clients and me on non-taxable stuff.
3. The HMRC is database is already slow enough without loading it up with needless P11d data.

Cue howls of anguish from HMRC posters!