does a bailiffs signature have to legible on a notice of seizure

hallowitch

just about to write a letter for a neighbour and was wondering if anyone can answers these questions before i write it

1) does a bailiffs signature have to be legible on the notice of seizure

2) if a bailiffs hand delivers a letter with his name printed on it as in MR jo blogs bailiff in charge should this also be signed by him

3) On this notice of seizure the bailiff hasn't work out the total amount due correctly the total to be paid reads £590 when you total it its actually £690

now this person paid a one of payment of £590 by the due date however she received a hand delivered informing her that she has to pay the £100 outstanding including an attendance to remove fee £120
when she phoned the bailiff company she was told tough she has to pay the van attendance fee
who is in the wrong the debtor or the bailiff who can count

chanz4

refer them to the copy which says total due £590. Also if no levy has been done how can they charge for a van that they turned up in anyway

crazyguy

I would have thought that if the original paper work states £590.00 and thats what she paid then they should not by rights try and add an extra amount on for the van attendance.

If the original debt was indeed £690.00 as opposed to the £590.00 listed and paid she should go back to the Bailiff's office and show them the paperwork for which she made the original payment against, they should then see the error and accept they were wrong and hopefully just charge the correct amount owed without the extra £120.00 fee on.

I cannot say 100% for sure but would imagine that if it was wrote down on paperwork then being as the bailifff made an error they could not justify an extra charge. You may wish to double check this with CAB,

hallowitch

I'm usually good with bailiffs but this is the first time Ive come across this its the bailiffs calculations that are wrong when he has tallied up the outstanding debt the 1st & 2nd, visit fees and levy fee he has miscalculated by £100

I personally don't think she should pay the van fee but what i think is neither here nor there

hallowitch

chanz4 wrote: »

refer them to the copy which says total due £590. Also if no levy has been done how can they charge for a van that they turned up in anyway

he has done a levy its his calculations on the notice of seizure that are wrong

RobertoMoir

I honestly don't know the answer to this one, not enough to give you a definitive answer. I've not had this happen to me, haven't heard of it happening to a bailiff I knew and haven't had it pop up when helping people out before, so I just don't know for sure.

I've got a couple of opinions though:

I was always told that my signature didn't have to be legible, it just had to be my actual signature. IIRC you have to sign your bailiff's general certificate and if there were a stewards enquiry then your signature ought to look like it did on that (don't hold me to this one, it's a VERY long time ago now that I got my certificate!)

As for the letter, I'm not sure if it *has* to be signed, though I personally always did. It might depend type of letter or notice it was, obviously if it's a legal notice that says it requires a signature then clearly it should have one.

If the original debt, by which I mean the reason the order was raised, is not cleared by the payment made then I would imagine that at the very least this will still need to be paid off. In other words, if your friend has basically paid £590 off a council tax bill of £650, they will still owe the council £60 once the dust has settled.

As for the return visit, I would suggest that they are unable to charge an enforcement fee for their error (I would complain to the council and the court about this one). I would suggest to the council that this is ample reason for them to call the file back from the bailiffs.

I would also (be VERY careful about relying on this next bit without checking it elsewhere) suggest that if the amount shown as payable on the levy/notice of distress plus any other money "reasonably" added to the account since then has been paid then the levy is possibly no longer valid. I'd certainly have been very reluctant to try and enforce such a case myself.

RobertoMoir

crazyguy wrote: »

You may wish to double check this with CAB,

They're about the last bunch of people I'd ask for opinion on bailiff law and council tax enforcement. I might ring them for help if all the monkeys in the nearest zoo were busy that day, but even then I'd try tarot cards first.

I know there are some good people in the CAB and I know some of them read this board so apologies to the good people there, but the chances of running into a fool who doesn't appreciate the limits of their own competency are far too high.

When I was a bailiff, I can't think of a single time that the CAB gave debtors helpful advice that frustrated my attempts to collect poll tax or council tax, in fact some of their advice was dangerous because it left them more open, not less, to us demanding full payment of a debt there and then or removing goods.

In more than one case I remember their advice resulted in the council starting committal proceedings against debtors, because I got to go back and do the arrest warrant for that, and from what the council told me back then the CAB advisers who gave the bad advice that led to that were nowhere to be seen in court on the day their clients appeared. Funny that.

hallowitch

roberto thanks for the reply very much appreciated

its not something Ive come across before either so i hope i get it right

i have made a few complaint on behalf of other people to our council and i have to say out chief of finance officer has been very quick and on the ball when he receives a formal complaint (all hand delivered)

another thing i will be pointing out to him is that on the back of the distress notice the schedule 5 fees are for England the fees in wales are less so this can very confusing to the debtor and this bailiff has charged visit fees charges for wales and levy fee charges for england

I believe when the fees were increased in 2006 wales wasn't included hence the reason for the different fee structure

when you look at the notice of seizure properly you can see the bailiff cant count

the total outstanding is less the actual debt outstanding (if you see what i mean )

she has no problem with paying the £100 owed to the council its the van/attendance fee she is not happy with

this is the letter that hasn't been signed the one charges have been added for the van attendance fee

the bailiff levied 3 items a car a motor bike and a trailer (in my opinion an excessive levy for a debt of £590) she sold the car after she paid the £590 so she is very worried about this

I have told her not to worry about it because at the time of the sale as far as she was aware the debt was paid

CIS

1) does a bailiffs signature have to be legible on the notice of seizure

The legibility of a signature is subjective - an X can be used as a persons signature.

2) if a bailiffs hand delivers a letter with his name printed on it as in MR jo blogs bailiff in charge should this also be signed by him

Nothing in the regs for council tax say it has to be - a lot of bailiff regs are covered in the rules for rent collections so there may be something in them about it but none of the bailiff legislation courses I've attended have mentioned it.

hallowitch

Hi CIS thanks for the reply i know i have read somewhere that the bailiff signature has to be legible but i cant remember where i read it i was hoping someone could answer the question without me having to get the books out