Employer refusing SSP payments. Advice required.

WaLL-E_2

I understand the reasoning behind the refusal in the case you gave.

So let's say a doctor signs you off with a serious back/leg/hand/both hands (if your job is manual & if you don't have full use of both hands then you can't do your job) problem.
Let's also assume that there's no such thing as light duties - that your employer operates a "full duties or no duties at all" policy. As well as this, there's no option to go to another department temporarily while your injury persists.

So you're off with an injury that is legitimately stopping you from doing your job. It's gone beyond the first week so you now have a doctors note 'backing up' the injury.
You are either housebound or your remain at home - simply because you don't want to be spotted outside which will only fire up those who like to gossip & the fact that you're not bed-ridden means you must surely be putting it on. So you play it safe & stay at home.


Would your employer then legally be allowed to stop your SSP? I can't see why they would have suspicion to doubt you (in this case), unlike let's say, if they heard you had been performing cartwheels down the street whilst signed off.

TrixieB

WaLL-E wrote: »

So let's say a doctor signs you off with a serious back/leg/hand/both hands (if your job is manual & if you don't have full use of both hands then you can't do your job) problem.
Let's also assume that there's no such thing as light duties - that your employer operates a "full duties or no duties at all" policy. As well as this, there's no option to go to another department temporarily while your injury persists.

So you're off with an injury that is legitimately stopping you from doing your job. It's gone beyond the first week so you now have a doctors note 'backing up' the injury.
You are either housebound or your remain at home - simply because you don't want to be spotted outside which will only fire up those who like to gossip & the fact that you're not bed-ridden means you must surely be putting it on. So you play it safe & stay at home.

You just described me there I don't go out an awful lot and only if am having a relatively good day - if I go out I usually get "spotted" by a member of staff who then run back and say oh well she was out can't be ill then. Had great delight in scotching the rumourmongers when I gave my mri report to my employer.
People don't see the times I have to crawl, the times my boyfriend has to lift me onto the toilet, the days i do nothing but cry in pain. People are very quick to make assumptions - and share them Makes me afraid to go out when I feel I can.

moremore

Read Gov. link again and it says that you would have to back to GP for a report. Will the employer get a consultant to decide if employer is able to work or will they just rely on their own judgement.

Also will the employer pay for the report from GP or will the employee have to pay for it to get SSP.

SarEl

moremore wrote: »

I am really surprise about employers being able to override GP’s sick note on such flimsy evidence ie being seen out by another colleague, surely there be repercussions for the employer if that member of staff got very ill due to going back to work on employers instructions.

Surely a GP with many years of training would be the best person as opposed to employer to say whether a patient is fit for work or not as the case maybe.

Well - in the first place GP's issued sick notes (as they were at that time) for swine flu without attending patients based on self-diagnosis from a computer test (not verified, and besides which, you can say anything). Secondly - a GP's note is advice, not instruction. Thirdly - several staff witnessing a sick member of staff out selling for hours on a cold and wet (if I recall correctly) November day is neither flimsy evidence, nor merely "being out". Fourthly, said individual knew that the advice on swine flu was to not go out at all until entirely free from symptoms (she worked for a health authority, for goodness sake!). And fifthly - just how convenient does it have to be that you are sick Monday - Friday, able to conduct yourself as normal over the weekend and then sick again for Monday - Friday. Nor was she instructed to go back to work - she was disciplined (and it wasn't the first one either!) for lying about being sick because they did not believe her story.

And GP's regularly sign people as unfit based on two or three minutes of an interview - not even an examination. It is miraculous the number of people who suddenly become too unfit to work when a disciplinary looms. Employers have little confidence in GP's - fit notes were introduced to try to overcome some of the entirely mistrust that employers had of sick notes, and there is no evidence it is working. In principle I agree that a formal diagnosis by a doctor should have weight - but unfortunately the tendency of GP's to issue sick/fit notes like smarties has done nothing to support either themselves or their patients. Whilst people here know that I have little love for employers generally, that does not mean that I am stupid. Neither are they. The fit note system will never have much sway with employers whilst it is open to such blatent and clear misuse.

SarEl

moremore wrote: »

Read Gov. link again and it says that you would have to back to GP for a report. Will the employer get a consultant to decide if employer is able to work or will they just rely on their own judgement.

Also will the employer pay for the report from GP or will the employee have to pay for it to get SSP.

It depends entirely on the situation - as I said, it is rare - but it happens.

moremore

Not sure if you have posted what you have said above before, but this post put a different kettle of fish on the relationship between employee and employer.

I do know of a case when an employee was off on holiday and on the last day had an accident but no broken bones but torn ligaments, but could not say for certain as the injury was very swollen and very painful. When it happened it was so bad she had to take a taxi to AE had x-rays and found no bones broken, but she could not walk. She lived alone AE said go home got a taxi home . After a couple of days she had to go out to supermarket for food with a walking aid. The nearest supermarket was of the same branch that she worked in. First time went shopping was a disaster as she found it very difficult to walk and carry some shopping as well. She observed some other disable people and they had rucksack and they put their shopping in it and then on their back as that did not obstruct them using the aids she had for walking.

She sent in certificates to employer and they keep phoning her at home saying that they did not received certificates, she that was OK she would send them a copy of them by recorded delivery. They insisted that she phone them every day, which she had not problems with, as she was on her own she had to go out shopping to eat otherwise she would die of hunger. Also she was under the hospital for a year with injury but was not off work for about 9 month as they employer wanted her back before she was ready and no support was put in place for her.

moremore

I think GP's have 10 minutes with patiets not 2 or 3.

SarEl

moremore wrote: »

I think GP's have 10 minutes with patiets not 2 or 3.

Theoretically. But I don't know of many who actually spend that amount of time with patients. And ten minutes is still not the point. I do not dispute that doctors advice should be valued, but I think that you will agree that we all know exactly what I am talking about - sick/fit notes have been devalued by misuse and that misuse has been by both employees and by GP's who have full well known that their patients are not unfir for work when they give them sick/fit notes. Because of those who have misused the system it reflects on everyone who is genuinely ill and unable to work. Unfortunately the majority suffer for the actions of a minority - but I would be hard pressed to find anyone I know who does not know of at least one occasion when someone has had a sick note which was not warranted, and given the people I know, most of them could ream such stories for hours.

WaLL-E_2

I agree.

In my partners workplace, there is such a person who, if anything "bad" is said to them (doesn't even have to be severely bad, just a comment which can be taken negatively), then they take time off work with depression or stress. It happens EVERY time without fail. If a decision goes against them - more time off work.
This sort of action has turned the entire workplace against them, because now people are not able to get their holidays due to being understaffed. The employers want rid of this person, but it's not so straight forward is it.

But that's another scenario.

paddedjohn

op, how much does your relative earn each week? is she in fact entitled to ssp?