,

jull_2

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

chris1973

Some are actually more complicated. For example in some U.S states, you have electricity companies who vary the rates depending on the season. Its also not unusual over there to have meters like our E7 ones, but which offer a three tier rate, called 'On-Peak', 'Off-Peak' and 'Shoulder'

So technically you have 6 tiers, one set of three tariffs for Summer and one set for Winter!.

Some companies also have 4 tiers, based on consumption during four timed periods during the day. Others may have a weekend and weekday Tariff. So in some cases, ours are still much simpler!

Although complicated over there electricity rates generally are more favourable than in the UK. Florida for example currently charges around 6 US cents per KW/H during on-peak times, (based on approx 3.5 cents for the actual electricity and around 2.5 cents paid as Tax)

This works out at around 3.8p per KW/H for daytime rates. Although business users on variable rates are generally hit harder during peak demand.

Here's a section from the Rate Card of one U.S Electricity Supplier

Energy Demand Charge:

Low Cost Hours (P1): 1.785¢ per KWH
Medium Cost Hours (P2): 3.021¢ per KWH
High Cost Hours (P3): 7.598¢ per KWH

Pricing periods are established by season. The pricing periods for price levels P1, P2, and P3 are as follows:

May through October

P1:- 11 P.M. - 6 A.M
P2:- 6 A.M. – 1 P.M & 6 P.M. - 11 P.M.
P3:- 1 P.M. – 6 P.M

November Through April

P1:- 11 P.M. - 5 A.M
P2:- 5 A.M. - 6 A.M. & 10 A.M. - 11 P.M
P3:- 6 A.M. - 10 A.M.

In comparison, "Rip off Britain" is right! :mad:

Cardew

chris1973 wrote: »

Although complicated over there electricity rates generally are more favourable than in the UK. Florida for example currently charges around 6 US cents per KW/H during on-peak times, (based on approx 3.5 cents for the actual electricity and around 2.5 cents paid as Tax)

This works out at around 3.8p per KW/H for daytime rates. Although business users on variable rates are generally hit harder during peak demand.

Here's a section from the Rate Card of one U.S Electricity Supplier



In comparison, "Rip off Britain" is right! :mad:

That is rather misleading about Florida electricity rates.

Whilst they are cheaper than UK there are other monthly charges and you pay per kWh for Electricity and again per kWh for supplying that electricity. You appear to have forgotten to include the non-fule energy charge per kWh - which is more than the fuel charge per kWh, also the host of other charges.

This is for Florida Power and Light - the sole supplier.

http://www.fpl.com/rates/pdf/Residential.pdf

In my place - all electric(not off-peak) - I pay:

Up to 1,000kWh per month c/kwh 4.914 + 3.8 = 8.714 cents/kWh

Over 1,000kWh per month 5.914 + 4.8 = 10.714 cents/kWh

There is a $5.90 monthly fee.

For Off peak you pay 13.727 cents/kWh daytime and 7.717 cents off peak.

In addition to the above charges there are a host of taxes, environmental charges, energy conservation, franchise charges etc - shown here:

http://www.fpl.com/customer/rates_and_bill/bill_components.shtml

As for Rip-Off Britain why don't you make comparisons with Europe for gas and electricity - where overall our charges are well below average.

Or Gas(not petrol;)) in the USA?

chris1973

As for Rip-Off Britain why don't you make comparisons with Europe for gas and electricity

Here you go:-

http://www.energy.eu/

Or Gas(not petrol;)) in the USA?

Gas prices, should be low in the UK, given our North Sea sources, just as Petrol prices are low in the U.S largely due to their 'local' source of oil.

In addition, a lot of heating and cooking is carried out using LPG on the Continent, so it wouldn't be a like for like comparison. Although if you check the LPG prices on the same link, the UK is not exactly the cheapest.....

This is for Florida Power and Light - the sole supplier

You mention one company as being the Sole supplier, yet Gulf Power, TECO, JEA and Progress Energy, all seem to supply customers in Florida. It was Gulf Power whose prices I used in the post above

http://www.gulfpower.com/pricing/pdf/rsvp.pdf

One further interesting point to note, is the rate of feed in Tariff prices which are applied throughout Europe:-

http://www.energy.eu/#Feedin

You'll note that the UK has the highest payout per KW/H in relation to generation using Windpower. Its also the only country constantly paying out a higher fee than it actually charges for selling it. In other words its making a loss.

Wait until the full impact of this loss coupled with the growth of these wind turbines is fully realised, and it hits the UK Energy market. Not to mention Solar PV.

Cardew

chris1973 wrote: »

Here you go:-

http://www.energy.eu/

Gas prices, should be low in the UK, given our North Sea sources, just as Petrol prices are low in the U.S largely due to their 'local' source of oil.

In addition, a lot of heating and cooking is carried out using LPG on the Continent, so it wouldn't be a like for like comparison. Although if you check the LPG prices on the same link, the UK is not exactly the cheapest.....

One further interesting point to note, is the rate of feed in Tariff prices which are applied throughout Europe:-

http://www.energy.eu/#Feedin

You'll note that the UK has the highest payout per KW/H in relation to generation using Windpower. Its also the only country constantly paying out a higher fee than it actually charges for selling it. In other words its making a loss.

Wait until the full impact of this loss coupled with the growth of these wind turbines is fully realised, and it hits the UK Energy market. Not to mention Solar PV.

The stupidity of the UK's massive subsidies for wind and Solar PV is well recognised in many threads in the green forum - crazy!

Have you any comment on my post about Florida electricity prices? That was the main point of my post.

Look at the gas and electricity prices for Europe in this:

http://www.energy.eu/#Domestic-Gas

Electricity 3,500kWh/7,500kWh annual consumption
Austria € 0.2079 Austria € 0.1888

Belgium € 0.2137 Belgium € 0.1911

Bulgaria € 0.0907 Bulgaria € 0.0909

Cyprus € 0.2044 Cyprus € 0.2029

Czech Rep, € 0.1461 Czech Rep, € 0.1212

Denmark € 0.2947 Denmark € 0.2553

Estonia € 0.1089 Estonia € 0.1061

Finland € 0.1501 Finland € 0.1313

France € 0.1396 France € 0.1254

Germany € 0.2671 Germany € 0.2511

Greece € 0.1320 Greece € 0.1527

Hungary € 0.1714 Hungary € 0.1632

Ireland € 0.2050 Ireland € 0.1840

Italy € 0.2041 Italy € 0.2568

Latvia € 0.1125 Latvia € 0.1126

Lithuania € 0.1307 Lithuania € 0.1268

Luxembourg € 0.1926 Luxembourg € 0.1796

Malta € 0.1703 Malta € 0.1803

Netherlands € 0.1892 Netherlands € 0.2336

Poland € 0.1509 Poland € 0.1458

Portugal € 0.1813 Portugal € 0.1650

Romania € 0.1134 Romania € 0.1119

Slovakia € 0.1768 Slovakia € 0.1575

Slovenia € 0.1557 Slovenia € 0.1422

Spain € 0.2013 Spain € 0.1839

Sweden € 0.1967 Sweden € 0.1707

United Kingdom € 0.1587 United Kingdom € 0.1432

UK is cheaper than most of the major European countries.

Gas 15,000kWh/30,000kWh annual consumption
EU-member state € per kWh gas EU-member state € per kWh gas

Austria € 0.0621 Austria € 0.0556

Belgium € 0.0632 Belgium € 0.0563

Bulgaria € 0.0449 Bulgaria € 0.0455

Cyprus NO DATA Cyprus NO DATA

Czech Rep. € 0.0521 Czech Rep. € 0.0497

Denmark € 0.1130 Denmark € 0.1130

Estonia € 0.0415 Estonia € 0.0410

Finland NO DATA Finland NO DATA

France € 0.0594 France € 0.0501

Germany € 0.0597 Germany € 0.0586

Greece NO DATA Greece NO DATA

Hungary € 0.0572 Hungary € 0.0546

Ireland € 0.0550 Ireland € 0.0506

Italy € 0.0796 Italy € 0.0685

Latvia € 0.0409 Latvia € 0.0403

Lithuania € 0.0465 Lithuania € 0.0414

Luxembourg € 0.0498 Luxembourg € 0.0510

Malta NO DATA Malta NO DATA

Netherlands € 0.0748 Netherlands € 0.0706

Poland € 0.0528 Poland € 0.0467

Portugal € 0.0655 Portugal € 0.0569

Romania € 0.0287 Romania € 0.0281

Slovakia € 0.0461 Slovakia € 0.0457

Slovenia € 0.0704 Slovenia € 0.0662

Spain € 0.0558 Spain € 0.0526

Sweden € 0.0893 Sweden € 0.0804

United Kingdom € 0.0442 United Kingdom € 0.0379

Again we are one of the cheapest!
Do you consider that supports your 'rip-off Britain' statement?

chris1973

Again we are one of the cheapest!

One of the cheapest being correct, as opposed to being THE cheapest.

The fact that we own and operate MORE Platforms than any other country in Europe should make us THE cheapest, at least as far as Gas is concerned.

Do you consider that supports your 'rip-off Britain' statement?

. With 8 countries in Europe being cheaper than the UK at producing and selling Electricity to its consumers, then given our own sources of Gas and Coal (which still makes up the majority of Electricity production in the UK) , we could be offered a much better deal. I also think the massive profits published by our utility companies also more than qualifies the statement, alone.

In addition when comparing prices in Europe, bear in mind that annual household usage in some of these countries is significantly less than the UK, due to a milder climate requiring less fuel to heat. Hence unit costs have to be increased slightly to cover the costs of maintaining the network and operating the company.

Have you any comment on my post about Florida electricity prices? That was the main point of my post.

Only that i've linked to the source where this tariff information came from.

http://www.gulfpower.com/pricing/pdf/rsvp.pdf

Also the fact that this source - Gulf Power also has and serves customers in Florida, along with TECO, who has 3.7 Million customers in the Florida state. Not sure where the 'sole' aspect of your original supplier reference came from. Perhaps you need to shop around for a better deal

Cardew

chris1973 wrote: »

You mention one company as being the Sole supplier, yet Gulf Power, TECO, JEA and Progress Energy, all seem to supply customers in Florida. It was Gulf Power whose prices I used in the post above

http://www.gulfpower.com/pricing/pdf/rsvp.pdf

Florida Power and Light is the sole supplier for my part of Florida - there is no competition in most(all?) parts of the state.

The prices you have quoted are just a part of the charge for electricity supply - the delivery. You apparently don't appreciate all the other charges. From your link:

Customer Charge: $10.00(monthly)

Fuel Charge: Fuel charges are normally adjusted by the Florida Public Service Commission annually in January. For current
fuel costs included in this tariff, see Sheet No. 6.34

TAX ADJUSTMENT: See Sheet No. 6.37


FRANCHISE FEE BILLING: See Sheet No. 6.37

PURCHASED POWER CAPACITY COST: See Sheet No. 6.35

ENVIRONMENTAL COST: See Sheet No. 6.36


ENERGY CONSERVATION: See Sheet No. 6.38


GROSS RECEIPTS TAX ADJUSTMENT:

See Sheet No. 6.37

Perhaps you need to shop around for a better deal

Perhaps you may want to reconsider your remarks - at least I understand the system!

chris1973

at least I understand the system!

Cool, so how do your annual utility costs in Florida compare to the UK?

In other words, your combined total spend per year on Gas and Electricity in Florida averages how much?. More?, Less? about the same?

Cardew

chris1973 wrote: »

Cool, so how do your annual utility costs in Florida compare to the UK?

I'm guessing your bills in Florida, must be, what?, 3 or 4 times that compared to in the UK?

In other words, your combined total spend per year on Gas and Electricity in Florida averages how much?

You have no idea what you are talking about re Florida prices. You have posted complete rubbish in your earlier posts and haven't seen fit to acknowledge the nonsense you have posted or amended your posts; instead you just try to divert the thread.

I have stated earlier that generally electricity prices are cheaper in the USA and Florida.

What does it matter what I pay per year in Florida for Utility bills. As I live in UK and the property is only occupied for a few months per year, what is the relevance?

I would add that I have relatives and friends who live in Florida and nobody I know has off-peak electricity. As little heating is required all year I suspect the major use would be for those who want to heat their pools in winter.

However as you pay a 50% premium for daytime electricity it wouldn't seem to make much sense; especially as the major consumption is Aircon in summer when the pool doesn't need heating.

Anyway the point of the post was to challenge your figures for electricity costs in Florida!

lemontart

don't forget the aircon cardew that is a cost most Florida homes have that uk homes tend not to,

Cardew

chris1973 wrote: »

and regardless of how accurate those working figures, .

That sums it up!

You post figures down to three decimal places of a cent to make your case.

When those figures are found to be several times too small and absolutely meaningless you 'don't want to get into an argument'.

Why not? Could it just be that your figures are a nonsense but you can't bring yourself to admit you are completely wrong!