Energy Saving Light Bulbs

D.A.

Hi Milko,

I notice those 7W Philips are longer than a normal GU10 bulb, so wouldn't fit my light fittings. What would suggest as the next best thing which would be the correct size (doesn't need to be dimmable)?

Thanks!

fbrj

I've just come across this thread and I thought my experiences might be of interest. I recently replaced all my 13 kitchen MR16 12v halogen ceiling lights - with low energy LEDs. The MR16s were operated by 4 different wall switches...2 of which had dimmers on them (and one of those was 2-way - ie that particular circuit was also operated by another wall switch elsewhere!)

My reasons for changing were principally cost but also I can hardly remember a time when all lights worked simultaneously. In some cases a new bulb did not rectify the problem and I suspected new transformers were required. [When the old transformers had been removed it appeared that this had been an ongoing problem - there were at least 3 different types. Previous occupiers had replaced some of the originals!]

After some research I decided to remove all the old transformers and replace the lampholders with GU10 type sockets, which work directly off the mains at 240v. I also decided, again after researching for quite a while, to get either 6w or 7w low energy LEDs (rather than the 3w or 4w which are also available). I also decided to get rid of the dimmers and replace with normal wall switches.

There is a helpful website here:

http://www.kulekat.com/led-home-lighting/led-replacements-for-halogen-lamps.html

One important issue that needs to be addressed early on when seaching for LEDs is the height of the whole light. In my case it wasn't really an issue as there was plenty of floor space above the ceiling and the ceiling fitting itself did not have any restriction that would limit the height of a new light. So check this carefully!

It seems that Cree, Edison and Epistar manufacture the best chips for these LEDs. I believe the first is US and the latter two are from Taiwan. I decided to go with the Cree and - despite the misgivings re ebay in an earlier comment - I bought mine from here (I have no connection at all with this Co btw) and they arrived exactly 10 days after my order (from Hong Kong):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260846295419&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:1123


I also decided to go with the "warm white" colour as the "cool white" seemed too cold. I also wanted a reasonably wide beam (some I looked at were only 30 deg.) The ones I got are 45 deg.


When I bought them they worked out at about £9.25 each delivered.

These were the others I nearly bought via Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Equivalent-Fluorescent-Energy-Saving-Fulfillment-Delivery/dp/B003U08Y0A

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0057XK1N6/ref=oss_product
(note: these are glass fronted but significantly taller - 73mm)

I bought the GU10 type lampholders from here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280429605913&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123

(I have no connection with these people either...)

Now that all are fitted and working - what are my first impressions? I would definitely go for at least 6w LED (ie 3 x 2w) if you are looking to replicate 50w halogen. The "warm white" is still cooler than the light from the MR16 halogens....so unless you are trying to recreate the interior of a hospital I would certainly go for the "warm white" as the "cool white" type are evidently even colder. As I don't spend my time looking up at the ceiling I don't miss the glass fronted halogen lights. I was amazed how cool (to touch) the LEDs are, compared with the halogens. I know there were comments above about the heat from the (replaced) halogens should be taken into account when working out cost savings - but in my case they were heating a bathroom floor above! Also there must be a plus re potential fire hazzards.

What I am looking forward to is a significant cost saving - despite the initial outlay; a full set of working lights; and a long time before any bulbs have to be replaced.

elstimpo

SandLake wrote: »

Good post Milko!

I have been interested in LED lights for a while but am just not sure they are suitable replacements and at the price they are it would be costly to buy them and find out they were the wrong choice.

I have 6 12v 50w (non-dimmable) MR16's in my kitchen on 2 circuits, a 4 and a 2. Could I replace all 6 with LED's and have the same light (and spread of light)?

What LED specification should I be looking for?

To properly replace a 50w halogen, you need at least 500 lumens and at least a 120 degree beam angle. You also need to make absolutely sure the lamp has proper heat dissipation as this seriously effects the lifespan.

In over 12 years of looking at LED's i've not seen any product under 7w that can replace a 50w Halogen properly and i've only seen one 7w LED Spot that properly replaces a 50w Halogen.

Look for a product that offers a warranty that suggests the lifespan they talk about is realistic. If you have a product they say last 15-20 years, why has it only got a 1 year warranty or even 2? I would suggest not buying an product that doesn't come with a 4 or 5 year warranty. Even if it costs more, you will save big time in the long run.

elstimpo

beanrua wrote: »

One of to-day's national deals on Groupon is LED lights. three for £21, six for £39, nine for £49 and twelve for £59 - 4 watt.

Please, please do not buy LED's from Groupon. To get you're product on Groupon you have to discount by at least 50% and then give Groupon 25% of the money you take. So any company selling products on Groupon must give away 75%. A lot of companies will simply get a product, wack 75% margin on it so that they can then discount it by the same. It's not true value and it's manipulation.

elstimpo

dmxdave wrote: »

Choose branded lamps such as Philips or Osram

May i ask why?

Milko

elstimpo wrote: »

May i ask why?

Because they all use branded LEDs such as Cree, Luxeon etc...

dmxdave

elstimpo wrote: »

May i ask why?

Lamp life and colour consistency.

dmxdave

Milko wrote: »

Because they all use branded LEDs such as Cree, Luxeon etc...

Thanks Milko, but this question was in relation to halogen.

jtk174

Having recently replaced a few Halogen GU10's in my kitchen with cfl's ( compact fluorescent ). I bought 11W with 6500K and 4000K colour temperature.
The "daylight" 6500K do not look pleasant in the kitchen. The 4000K bulbs are much more in keeping with the existing halogens. However the beam angle of the cfl's is quite wide in comparison to the halogen. While the light amount appears to be fine, I find it much easier to read the food labels under the halogen, compared to, under the cfl.
It would be interesting to see how the led bulbs compare as they have a similar beam angle to the halogens.

I chose not to buy the led type because of the cost but also because several people had complained that the bulbs they had bought, failed within a year. In checking around I found that some cmpanies, while advertising the longevity of both cfl and led bulbs, gave only a 21 day ( or similar ) warranty. I do not know if that is legal but several cited reasons "outside of their control" for this shortened period.

I nearly bought halogens again, as it would be cheaper to replace bulbs three or four times before recouping the physical cost of both cfl and led types. Not sure about the electricity savings though.
However, it was also the fact that my lighting circuit tripped everytime a halogen blew, that persuaded me. It's a bit hard going into the boiler house to reset the trip, without light to guide my path!
It was while I was checking the price I discovered that only some bulbs contain an inbuilt fuse and supposedly prevent trips from being activated. I will check this out as an elderly relative has a similar problem and cannot access the trip without climbing up steps.

elstimpo

Milko wrote: »

Because they all use branded LEDs such as Cree, Luxeon etc...

So do all of the LED's that are up and around that price range.

For comparative purposes, here is the most powerful Phillips 7w spot vs A no branded 7W Spot

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af179/cjsphotos/ESLEDvsPhillips.jpg

The Phillips product on the right has warm white lumens of 270 and 40 beam angle - It costs between £49.99 and £25
and comes with a 2 year warranty - http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af179/cjsphotos/Phillips4999.jpg

The non branded product on the left warm white lumens of 550 and a beam angle 135. It costs around £35 and comes with a 5 year warranty. It's far smaller, better looking, won and internationally recognised design award and more than twice as powerful as the Phillips bulb.

The Phillips bulb is dimmable, the non branded bulb is dimmable only with a specialist driver.

So please do not just assume branded products are the ones to go for, as you can see here, this contest was no contest.