Money taken without permission

DVardysShadow

wealdroam wrote: »

OP, what I really cannot understand is, when your son "shopped around and got a better deal elsewhere and sorted it himself", why did he not cancel the expiring insurance policy.

It seems quite clear to me that the insurance company has done nothing wrong.

Whilst it is not quite as clear (to me) whether your credit card company has any responsibility or not, you and your son did agree about a year ago that it was ok for you to use your credit card to fund his insurance.

So to summarise... your son is responsible for the £50 admin/cancellation charge because he did not, in a timely manner, make it known to his existing insurers that he was going elsewhere.

It is very clear to me that they have done something wrong.

They took a payment from the OP, who thought it was a single payment and have raised a CPA instead. Of course, if OP had seamlessly slid into the conversation to pay without it being clear he was not the person setting up the insurance, then this may not apply. As I see it, it is not the fault of the call handler, it is a deficiency in the processes of the insurer not to address this issue

arcon5 wrote: »

If its confirmed op isn't their customer then all a chargeback will mean is they will chase the son for the money.

Either way, somebody owes the £50 so a chargeback may well be a short sighted solution.

Yes, they may chase the son. But this is not a one off, this problem arises every now and again. It is a problem with the insurer's processes that the OP thought a single payment was authorised but a CPA was taken.

I don't see it as a short sighted solution. Perhaps the son did cancel and the insurer ignored this? It would not be the first time. Best overall for the insurer and the son to deal with each other.

arcon5

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I don't see it as a short sighted solution. Perhaps the son did cancel and the insurer ignored this? It would not be the first time. Best overall for the insurer and the son to deal with each other.

Now you just making stuff up. If they had already cancelled and they had not honoured this, don't you think op would have mentioned that? But she says they received the new policy, then her son phoned up to say he has a policy elsewhere and to cancel. Not the words of something victim to their underhand tactics -- which I have no doubt in my mind it probably a common thing, but it doesn't appear that has happened.

So lets say the contract is infact with the son and op files a chargeback, her son still failed to cancel the policy and owes them £50, the liability still exists. So all they're doing is causing more hassle for them both in the longrun.

It may well state in their payment terms the same card will be charged.
Ops son has authorised the company to charge the card as part of t he renewal -- so it can either be a) assumed he has the authorisation of the card hold; b) committed fraud by allowing a card to be charged without the cardholders knoweledge or authorisation. So ops son also has to bear some of the responsibility in allowing this to happen.

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SteveJW wrote: »

With who do I have a potential claim, my credit card company for making a payment I had not authorised, or the insurance company for taking the money without permission.

The claim is against your son. In many cases the renewal is done as an automatically recurring transaction though they should make this clear in the renewal documents. Assuming they did then your son may not have read them properly. If you cancel the insurance company is allowed to charge an admin fee. So probably the only person you can claim the money back from is your son.

Oliver14

Charge your son for the £50 as its his fault for not cancelling quick enough. Ignore Dvardys as they are making things up not based on your situation as Arcon said the insurance company would have gained permission from your original contract.

Its basically the danger of letting your son sign up for insurance with your CC and him not understanding the payment conditions and you nit checking

System

the thing is insurance companies always send a letter out first with the renewal price. That letter would say you are automatically going to be charged unless you tell them you want to cancel. It sounds like the whole thing is your sons fault so I would charge him the 50 quid! The chargeback route is a bad option to go down. It seems likely your son is going to have to pay 50 quid, its either to you or he will receive threatening letters from the insurance company till he pays them. For ease it seems easier for him to pay you

DVardysShadow

arcon5 wrote: »

Now you just making stuff up. If they had already cancelled and they had not honoured this, don't you think op would have mentioned that? But she says they received the new policy, then her son phoned up to say he has a policy elsewhere and to cancel. Not the words of something victim to their underhand tactics -- which I have no doubt in my mind it probably a common thing, but it doesn't appear that has happened.

So lets say the contract is infact with the son and op files a chargeback, her son still failed to cancel the policy and owes them £50, the liability still exists. So all they're doing is causing more hassle for them both in the longrun.

It may well state in their payment terms the same card will be charged.
Ops son has authorised the company to charge the card as part of t he renewal -- so it can either be a) assumed he has the authorisation of the card hold; b) committed fraud by allowing a card to be charged without the cardholders knoweledge or authorisation. So ops son also has to bear some of the responsibility in allowing this to happen.

And you deserve a prize for fiction. OP bears NO responsibility to the insurer, unless OP explicitly authorised a CPA. This is for the insurer to prove.

Yes, son bears responsibility - to the insurance company. Insurance company is responsible to OP to reimburse in full.

Remember, the contract is between the son and the insurer and the OP is merely the payer of the first year premium. of course, if you can establish that the contract is with the OP, then it is a different matter.

arcon5

in which case ops son has committed fraud by agreeing to the insurance company charging the card without authorisation of the card holder.

SteveJW

As I thought

I do think on the website when making the initial payment it should state that payments will be automatically taken in subsequent years and give you an option not to take this up

As I was not the policy holder, I could not cancel / decline renewal

Many thanks for all replies

Keeping_Positive

SteveJW wrote: »

As I thought

I do think on the website when making the initial payment it should state that payments will be automatically taken in subsequent years and give you an option not to take this up

As I was not the policy holder, I could not cancel / decline renewal

Many thanks for all replies

true but im fairly sure the ins co will have written to your son with renewal details so he should have cancelled. Hope the charge back works but I would have a word with your son when hes back. Also the new ins co will most likely do the same next year so he can watch out for it.

arcon5

SteveJW wrote: »

I do think on the website when making the initial payment it should state that payments will be automatically taken in subsequent years and give you an option not to take this up

As I was not the policy holder, I could not cancel / decline renewal

It does, its usually tells you when you click the link titled 'terms and conditions'.

You will most likely get your money back if you tell them you didn't authorise it. Make sure you tell you son though so he can expect the letters chasing the money owed.

Personally I would be blaming the son as much as the company for being too irresponsible to cancel his current contract before taking out new ones.