Advising HMRC about a death

Pollycat

Hi
My Dad died last week and I'm working through what needs to be done.

I picked up a leaflet called 'What to do after a death' produced by jobcentreplus.

I'm not sure if this is totaly applicable to my Dad as he was a pensioner.

It says you should return National Insurance papers to the relevant HMRC office.

I've no idea what these are.

Does anybody have any ideas?

Maybe I should just ring them....

melancholly

firstly, i'm so sorry for your loss. all the practical things on top of the emotional aspect can be difficult. directgov has quite an extensive checklist page that may be useful:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Death/WhatToDoAfterADeath/DG_10029808

John_Pierpoint

If dad was paying Income Tax, and unfortunately most pensioners are, there could be a small amount of tax repayment because he has died half way through the tax year but is still entitled to a full year's worth of personal allowance, which is greater for modest incomes when one reaches retirement age.

You need to find his annual statement of DWP benefits and work out which are taxable and which non taxable (eg State Pension taxable Attendance Allowance non taxable.) then add any savings interest and do the sums (or post the figures when you have worked them out and someone on the "tax saving" part of the forum will work them out for you).

If you need a list to work your way through it all then "Which?" do a couple of guides that explain almost everything.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/184490072X/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0852028164&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0GT12WT1Y1NWK1EY08BP

You really need to make a plan and lists, so you know where you are going before you set out, then work through it all ticking off your progress. Take your time it is not a race. If for the moment you want to leave the will safely at the solicitors, demand that they give you a "certified copy", which you can then photocopy and send to anyone who demands to see it, together with one of your copies of the death certificate.

Tell everyone to take a copy and send the "originals" back to you, nearly every company/organisation will do this as instructed.

It is not just money. There will be strange people who might no know that Dad has died and they will expect to be informed. (Christmas cards often arrive to remind you of long lost friends).

I know you are thinking you could avoid the slight extra expense and hassle of "probate"; but has it occurred to you that in years to come some great great nephew/niece if not grand child might be trying to work out what became of their ancestor and find no record of a will?

Mrs_Money

Pollycat wrote: »

Hi
My Dad died last week and I'm working through what needs to be done.

I picked up a leaflet called 'What to do after a death' produced by jobcentreplus.

I'm not sure if this is totaly applicable to my Dad as he was a pensioner.

It says you should return National Insurance papers to the relevant HMRC office.

I've no idea what these are.

Does anybody have any ideas?

Maybe I should just ring them....

So sorry for your loss- we've just been through this as my FIL died a year ago - we've learned quite a lot in that year!
You could do with finding his National Insurance number. You can phone the pensions people and tell them what's happened and then you can phone HMRC and ask about tax, they'll tell you what to do. If your dad only had a state pension he's unlikely to owe any tax unless he's got investments that have been earning him interest. Pensioners have a higher personal allowance for income tax than the rest of us, so even then he may still not have been liable for tax.

You don't need to buy a book - the direct.gov website has all the info you need and a checklist of what to do when someone dies. It's simple and clear and contains all you need and contacts for various things.
Lots of people on here have been through this - come back and ask anything - someone will know.
Good luck with it - it isn't as daunting as it seems at first and we had nothing but kindness and help from everyone we rang at the time.

Pollycat

Hi all, thanks for the replies and condolences.

Mrs Money, I've been 'overseeing' Mum & Dad's finances for a number of years so I do know exactly what he was receiving and from who - and I know his NI number.
I've got all their paperwork at my house and, where necessary, I'm drafting letters and Mum is signing them.

In fact, I'd recently been made appointee for Dad with the DWP so I have all his financial details to hand and have rung or written to most organisations.

The reference to 'National Insurance papers' just confused me because if someone asked me for my NI papers (I'm 58), I wouldn't know what they meant.

Anyhow, I rang HMRC and (after going through lots of options - press #1 for x, press #2 for y etc -and advice about other ways of getting in touch with HMRC. My Mum would just not be able to cope with that and I feel so sorry for people who don't have somebody with a modicum of nous to help them in circumstances like this.) spoke to a very nice lady who first said she had no tax record of my Dad but after I quoted a reference number to her she did say he'd been paying a 'very small' amount of tax on his occupational pensions - which I found very surprising.

She's sending a form to me (not Mum which is good) so I may have to do a tax return for Dad which should be not too hard as I have all the documentation.

They definitely didn't pay tax on their state pensions, benefits or savings (I'd done R85 forms) and the occupational pensions were pretty small so I can't see a lot of money being involved.

John
Thanks for all the advice.
I do have a 'Things to do' list which I'm ticking off bit by bit.
I even rang TV Licensing yesterday and changed the licence into Mum's name.
I'm retired so do have a lot of time to do stuff and, to be honest, I find it therapeutic (or do I mean 'cathartic'?) to get things 'done'.

I'm not sure that I do need a copy of Dad's will.
So far, nobody has asked to see it.
I think I said on another thread (Thanks for remembering me ) that Mum & Dad had a joint fixed term savings bond and the Building Society have only asked to see the death certificate (plus other ID from Mum) when we go in to see them.

That only leaves their joint bank account with a small amount of money in so I don't really expect the bank to want to see anything other than the death certificate.

Regarding ancestry, would it really be so bad if someone trying to trace Dad didn't find a will?
Why would somebody in say, 50 years time, wonder if he'd made a will?
There will be no 'comeback' from anyone with a claim.
Dad's only sister died without children many years ago.

Or am I being selfish?
Maybe I should ask Mum if she wants to have a copy of the will? I'm pretty certain she'll say 'no' though.

Once again, thanks for all the help.

Errata

Re the ancestry bit. It's only in very recent times that working class people - which is most of us - made a will because they rarely owned property and their goods and chattels were of little value. So ...... anyone in the future doing ancestry tracing will be more suprised by the existence of a will than if there isn't one.

Savvy_Sue

Mrs_Money wrote: »

You don't need to buy a book - the direct.gov website has all the info you need and a checklist of what to do when someone dies. It's simple and clear and contains all you need and contacts for various things.

Ah, but the beauty of a book is that you can read it in more places than you can consult DirectGov, and I for one think I retain more information read from books than read from a computer screen ...

I know Pollycat is now a few days further down the line now, so this may not be relevant to her, but it's worth noting that there's a special copy of the Death Certificate which you have to post off to DWP. And I think they pass details on to HMRC. So that might be what the Job Centre leaflet was on about? Not sure.

Anyway, THAT copy of the death certificate makes sure that all benefits are cancelled - probably Attendance Allowance and Pension Credit for pensioners, but ESA, JSA, DLA and all the tax credits - for younger people - and that any overpayment is (eventually) clawed back. And I do mean eventually, because they may do it in stages! Even though I told DWP that they'd overpaid Dad's AA before his death as well as after it, they said they hadn't, until a few months down the line when they said they had and asked for it back! :mad:

McKneff

That only leaves their joint bank account with a small amount of money in so I don't really expect the bank to want to see anything other than the death certificate.

I dont even think they will want that to be honest, any money in a joint current account automatically goes to the survivor/s named on the joint account so dont worry about that one.

How sad you have lost your dad and your mum has lost her husband, presumably they were married a long time since you said you were retired. She must be feeling very lost..........

Pollycat

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I know Pollycat is now a few days further down the line now, so this may not be relevant to her, but it's worth noting that there's a special copy of the Death Certificate which you have to post off to DWP. And I think they pass details on to HMRC. So that might be what the Job Centre leaflet was on about? Not sure.

Anyway, THAT copy of the death certificate makes sure that all benefits are cancelled - probably Attendance Allowance and Pension Credit for pensioners, but ESA, JSA, DLA and all the tax credits - for younger people - and that any overpayment is (eventually) clawed back. And I do mean eventually, because they may do it in stages! Even though I told DWP that they'd overpaid Dad's AA before his death as well as after it, they said they hadn't, until a few months down the line when they said they had and asked for it back! :mad:

Savvy_Sue
Thanks.

The form you mention is form BD8.
The Registrar did give one to me to send off to the DWP.

However, I rang DWP prior to sending it as I wanted to give them notification asap (day after Dad died) and the woman asked me loads of questions, including some about Mum, and when I said I'd got form BD8 to send in, she said I didn't need to as we'd gone through everything.

They've certainly stopped Dad's state pension and Mum has 3 letters (as yet unopened) from DWP which I'll see today.

I'm pondering whether to complete it and send it anyway on a 'belt & braces' approach....

I'm fully expecting to be asked to replay some money, I didn't expect it to take as long as it may do though.
I read on one thread that someone was asked for a repayment of benefits 3 months later.

Pollycat

McKneff wrote: »

I dont even think they will want that to be honest, any money in a joint current account automatically goes to the survivor/s named on the joint account so dont worry about that one.

How sad you have lost your dad and your mum has lost her husband, presumably they were married a long time since you said you were retired. She must be feeling very lost..........

Thanks McNeff, we're going in to the bank today so we'll see how good they are.

Thanks for your condolences, they had been married for a few days over 49 years.

He's actually my step-dad but he'd been with my Mum since I was 6 (I'm 58) so in my heart he was my Dad.

Of all the posts I've written on here about Mum & Dad over the last few months about:
care homes and funding
Mum's finances should Dad have to go into a home
dealing with Adult Social Services
Notifying people of his death
Lost wills
Probate
Showing appreciation to the care home by giving a donation
etc etc

that last sentence has had me in tears.

It's almost 2 weeks to the hour since my sister rang and told me and - God, I think it's just hit me that he's gone.

McKneff

Your whole post had me with a tear in my eye,

Im 61 and i lost my mum and dad in between twenty and thirty years ago, and i still have a little weep occasionaly.

Hope everything goes okay for you all.

x

Annie