Employer using redundancy as a way of getting the same job done for less

Deano123

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can shed any light on the following please.

My employer today has advised that my role as a Senior Engineer is to become redundant but that there is a position within the company (in the same office etc) for an Engineer and that this job would be advertised in the next few days and that I could apply for it if I so wished.

I was actually told that the business could not support the salary of a "Senior Engineer" and that the "Engineers" job would have a salary level much less (£6K less or possibly even less still).

The "Engineers" role will basically be the same as the "Senior Engineers" role (although I haven't seen the job description for the "Engineers" job as of yet but I can categorically state it will be within a gnats whisker of what I currently do, there is no other way of doing it or not possible to create a job desription different from what it actually is) therefore what the employer is looking to do is get the same work done for much less money.

I have a few questions:

1. Can the employer make a role redundant purely on its job title and then employ another person or even myself to do the same work involved.

2. Can the employer advertise for the "Engineers" job without, at the very least, asking me if I will downgrade before advertising it.

3. A friend has advised that If I were to downgrade my salary should be protected for (he thinks) 2 years, is this correct?

Many thanks in advance.

Dean

getmore4less

3. there is no right to protected pay

EssexGirl

Completely different field, but I currently work for a local council and they want to make us all apply for our own jobs again. If successful we would be re-employed on a lower scale, at a vastly lower salary, with a few days less annual leave oh and they would be cutting our opening hours so although they haven't said so yet, we would be working less hours.

So if local councils can do it, I'm sure private business can. Good luck.

antrobus

Employer using redundancy as a way of getting the same job done for less

It happens. Bear in mind that any employer can dismiss anyone they like for any reason so long as they're willing to pay the price.

I believe that, legally speaking, your employer is obliged to 'consult' with you before making a decision and to 'offer' you a suitable alternative job if there's one going. Whether or not simply advising you of your redundancy and informing you that there is an alternative job that you could apply quite complies with these requirements might be debatable, but I suspect that it's a debate that wouldn't get you far very far.

1. Can the employer make a role redundant purely on its job title and then employ another person or even myself to do the same work involved.

Yes. (More or less)

2. Can the employer advertise for the "Engineers" job without, at the very least, asking me if I will downgrade before advertising it.

Technically no. They should have offered it to you.

3. A friend has advised that If I were to downgrade my salary should be protected for (he thinks) 2 years, is this correct?

No. There is no such right in law. Some employers (such as the NHS) do offer salary protection to employees who are downgraded, but that's because it's a deal that's been done with the unions.

And talking of unions; are you a member of one, or as an engineer are you a member of any professional engineering organisation? I only ask because those kind of organisations frequently do offer advice and support to members who are faced with redundancy.

getmore4less

EssexGirl wrote: »

Completely different field, but I currently work for a local council and they want to make us all apply for our own jobs again. If successful we would be re-employed on a lower scale, at a vastly lower salary, with a few days less annual leave oh and they would be cutting our opening hours so although they haven't said so yet, we would be working less hours.

So if local councils can do it, I'm sure private business can. Good luck.

They are relying on people being desperate to have jobs any jobs.

Wonder what would happen if people just did nothing,

They would probably have to put everyone at risk or redundacy or try to force pay cutes etc.

this way the threat people volunteer to take pay cuts by applying for the jobs.

Problem is the councils are stupid enough to let everyone go if they all just refused to accept the rolls as not suitable alterenatives to redundacy.

Deano123

Many thanks for your replies, particularly antrobus.

It gives me something to go on.

Yes I am a member of a professional body but not a union, it may be worth having a chat with them.

I'll wait for the job advert to go out, have my next consultation meeting and then, depending on what happens, might seek legal advice and or contact ACAS for advice.

Many thanks again.

Emmzi

1. Can the employer make a role redundant purely on its job title and then employ another person or even myself to do the same work involved.

No, not on title. The job needs to be substantially different. So some level of responsibility taken out of it (budgets, people manegment, something) would be typical. Or servicing a smaller client base. etc. Then they start redundancy proceedings. Read the new job description carefully and find your current one.


2. Can the employer advertise for the "Engineers" job without, at the very least, asking me if I will downgrade before advertising it.

They have an obligation to look for suitable alternative employment for you, yes. What is "suitable" is a matter for discussion between you and your employer.

3. A friend has advised that If I were to downgrade my salary should be protected for (he thinks) 2 years, is this correct?

No.

So your choice is probably, do you want a redundancy payoff, or do you want the lower graded job.

I would not rely on advice from ACAS.

Probably too late to join the union now as you are already in the sticky stuff - they usually like you to have joined before.

Deano123

Many thanks, great advice.

Deano123

Well they've advertised the job today and I haven't had the consultation meeting yet, it's planned for tomorrow morning!

What's more, my colleagues have been taking calls today from prospective applicants whilst I am actually there!

I have sought legal advice and it looks as if they have made significant error after even more significant error.

I am supposed to go to the consultation meeting tomorrow and propose things that will help me save my job but they have already told me that the job is definitely redundant, advertised for a job that is exactly the same (and I can prove this) as what I am currently doing and they haven't even asked if I would do the job for less salary or less conditions.

The next few weeks should be fun - I'll keep this post updated.

Thanks again to those that gave advice.

Emmzi

I believe you should have had first crack at the job.. and would push to be interviewed first and a decision made on your suitability before any other candidates are seen.

Deano123

Hi Emmzi, that's the advice I have had from my Wife' HR Director and an employment law specialist.

Also, my colleagues have been taking phone calls from prospective applicant of the advertised job – I have sought advice regarding this and have been informed that this is a breach of my employers Duty of mutual trust & confidence as it puts me in a position where I feel that my trust in the employer has been totally destroyed.

Happy days - Not

Edit: I can't believe they are being this naive/stupid, we aren't a small company so it's not as if they don't have the resources to do things properly.