TUPE rules

wolfie2222

My company is transferring my employment to another company,and we are covered by the TUPE rules. My question is they say terms and conditions stay exactly the same,but what if i dont like working for the new company or dont want to work for the new company can i take redundancy.?

Also if I like the look of the new contract i will be given,would they be able to reduce my pay,or hours in the future(maybe 6,or 12 months down the line)?

hex2

wolfie2222 wrote: »

My company is transferring my employment to another company,and we are covered by the TUPE rules. My question is they say terms and conditions stay exactly the same,but what if i dont like working for the new company or dont want to work for the new company can i take redundancy.?

Also if I like the look of the new contract i will be given,would they be able to reduce my pay,or hours in the future(maybe 6,or 12 months down the line)?

No - sadly not. Normal redundancy rules apply though so if they restructure post transfer you can always volunteer. If you don't transfer because you dont want to then you have resigned. The only argument is if they are making changes that are unreasonable for you personally - ie a change of location that is not covered in your contract. In that circumstance I would strongly advise you to see an expert before you argue your case. The case law in those circumstances is quite interesting.

Second question is far more complicated, technically they cannot change your terms if it is related to the transfer, but if they can come up with a valid re-structure (generally needs to involve a reduction in staff numbers to work) then they may have a defense at tribunal. Depends how brave they are tbh. There is no set period after which it is safe to change, but sack and re-employ on new contracts after 12 months is risky to the employer but not uncommon. The utterly frustrating bit for an employer is that even if the employee agrees to change terms - selling some holiday rights for example - you can subsequently change your mind and sue for lost earnings anyway!

Good luck with it.

snowcat53

There is no right to object to TUPE transfer and take redundancy. If you object you are normally deemed to have resigned. However there is a very interesting legal case
Univ of Oxford v Humphreys and AEB (2000)
Supports proposition that an employee who resigns on or before a transfer of ownership of the undertaking in which he is employed because of well-founded fears that the new owner intends to impose worse terms and conditions of employment than those provided by the original owner can claim constructive wrongful dismissal against the original owner;

Essential to get proper advice from an employment lawyer via your union or your household legal policy.

wolfie2222

Looks like we might be being stitched up here. seems so unfair not to offer redundancy to those who want it.Not as if the company we are leaving are a small concern,they are hugh and worth a fortune.
The rules are so complicated arent they?
I reckon what will happen is we will be transferred over,then the tupe only guarantees til end of March.Then where if we got made redundant now,it would be worth 3 times as much as if we get made redundant when the new company take over..

Andy_L

wolfie2222 wrote: »

Then where if we got made redundant now,it would be worth 3 times as much as if we get made redundant when the new company take over..

Any contractual entitlement to more than statuatory redundancy will transfer as part of TUPE as will your length of service for calculating it

wolfie2222

Oh right. The way I thought it would be is.After 31st March my current employer will be no more, i will be under the the new company.But their redundancy package is only the government guidline one... So what you are saying is when I get a new contract it will state in that contract that I will get what my old company were paying if I get made redundant???
What is confusing is,my employer now is giving my new employer 1 million pounds (so called for any redundancys they make) but told them if they dont make redundancys by the end of March then they can keep the money themselves...
Even the union has never heard anything like it,and have got solicitors working on the rules.
Another confusing thing is the new company take over from 1st November(they are then our new employer). But the tupe ends 31st march when my employer now move their stuff out of premises.
Sorry this is all a bit confusing,its too much to take in.

wolfie2222

The feeling on shop floor is they should have made us redundant then re applied for jobs with the new company.
But we think they have done it so that when it all comes to light,they can say " we didnt make people lose their jobs we found them enployment"
Just seems to us like a dirty trick.

getmore4less

What is confusing is,my employer now is giving my new employer 1 million pounds (so called for any redundancys they make) but told them if they dont make redundancys by the end of March then they can keep the money themselves...

Not common but not unknown.

Loss making, cheaper to pay someone to take it away than restructre in house or shut down.

The "it was not us" element will also support offloading

The restrucure should happen fairly quickly and the payouts should be the same unless they are stitching people up.

Suprised it is not in the public domain with so many people involved

wolfie2222

New company wont talk to the press, ,meeting with union reps soon.
Company we are with now told press "all our employees will be transferred over 1st November."
It will all come out to the press may be after next week.
All people want is a bit of honesty,even if they dont like whay they are being told,at least they know where they stand.

Just trying to make themselves look good by saying "we have found employment for our workers".

Jarndyce

Am I missing something here? Your business is being transferred to a new owner. The TUPE regulations are there to protect you. Why should the transfer make it likely that you should be made redundant? I don't get your point at all. They have not 'found employment for their workers', they have transferred the business and the law says the employees should transfer with it. I really can't see why anyone would think this was a 'dirty trick'.

wolfie2222

No sorry. My business is still a BIG business,who are moving all our work from our warehouse to another one of our sites...In the meantime another company are going to be running my warehouse,but i dont know what kind of job i will be doing,or what hours,or what rate of pay.So my now company have not transferred the business,just transferred us to another employer.