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Have the Greeks Actually DONE Anything to Address Their Deficit?

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  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Zither wrote: »
    Lots of rumours floating about this afternoon that Greece may announce default soon.

    That's only because they want more money.

    They will do it next month too.
  • A man more likely to tell the truth then otherwise I'd say
    Ex-IMF Chief Strauss Kahn: Greece Unable To Pay Debt, Loss Unavoidable
    PARIS (Dow Jones)--The former International Monetary Fund's Managing Director, Dominique Strauss Kahn, Sunday said Greece is unable to pay its debt and its creditors will have to take losses on the debt they hold.

    "Greece got poorer, we can say Greeks will pay on their own, but they can't," Strauss Kahn said in an interview on French TV channel TF1. "There is a loss and it must be taken by governments and banks," he said.

    "Governments haven't solved the problem, they just delayed it, and the snowball grows," the former chief of the IMF added in his first comments since stepping down from his post.

    Strauss Kahn made his comments as euro-zone governments increase pressure on their Greek partner to act more decisively to meet fiscal targets after talks with visiting international inspectors were abruptly suspended earlier this month as it appeared the country would overshoot its budget deficit for this year.

    Analysts and rating agencies, such as Moody's, have recently said the Greek government debt is unsustainable and the probability of a haircut--a reduction of the principal owed to someone--for Greek bondholders is increasing. European Governments and Central Bank's Officials have dismissed this possibility.

    Separately, Strauss Kahn said he regretted what happened in a New York hotel in May when he was charged with sexual aggression by a hotel maid. The whole incident didn't involve any violence or anything illegal, he said, though he acknowledged it was a "moral mistake". Strauss Kahn was cleared of charges in late August, after he had quit his job at the IMF.

    During the Sunday interview, Strauss Kahn said he intended to run for President in the 2012 elections before the New York incident. "I missed my appointment with the French people," he said.

    After what happened, he won't participate in the campaign, he said.
    September 18, 2011 15:25 ET (19:25 GMT)
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    The former International Monetary Fund's Managing Director, Dominique Strauss Kahn, Sunday said Greece is unable to pay its debt
    Anybody can meet their loan payments if somebody else gives them the money.

    It's absurd to say "There is a loss". Every national debt represents money that's been borrowed and spent. Countries ought to balance their budgets, but they aren't expected to balance their assets and liabilities. They do of course have assets, but not in realisable form.

    And it's absurd to say Greece can't pay its debts. Many countries have no prospect of ever paying off their national debts, including the UK and the USA. That is not the problem.

    The problem is that Greece on its own can't meet its debt-servicing obligations. But a default won't at this stage hurt Greece or Greek politicians. Mostly it'll hurt the rest of Europe.

    The problem for Europe is how to make this as painless as possible. Europe's politicians know what the answer isn't, and they know what it is. Only thing is, they don't like it, and they don't like having to do what they don't like. As somebody said yesterday, Europe has wasted the summer massaging Sarkozy.
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • bendix
    bendix Posts: 5,499 Forumite
    pqrdef wrote: »
    They wouldn't rather have jobs then.

    If they'd sooner have an economy like Greece's instead of their own, I'm sure it could be arranged.


    And who would be the Germany to this new Greece-like Germany. Which sap country would subsidise this new Germany as it let it's workers avoid paying taxes, while giving people benefits and pension rights that are unavoidable.

    Would you be happy for the UK taxpayer to assume this role? I suspect not.

    Your soul idea is that money can be thrown at things, but you seem a bit vague on where that money comes from.
  • C_Mababejive
    C_Mababejive Posts: 11,668 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    This is simply an extension of the general state of indebtedness.

    For those who are in the know...money is simply a way of purchasing debt or an expression of your creditworthiness.

    On an individual level..if you have a job/income..you can purchase debt in the form of mortgages,credit cards,loans etc..

    Money and income are simply forms of funding purchases and liefstyles which you otherwise could not afford should you be compelled to live on that money alone.

    The mugs...didnt realise this. They salted money away in banks in the form of savings,thinking they were being prudent and efficient.

    The banks laughed quietly,took their savings and gave it to those who wanted the better lifestyles funded by debt.

    now then..there was a time when being in debt was shameful.

    No longer.

    It has become the done thing to get into lots of debt and then become bankrupt.

    Being bankrupt used to be a big thing.

    Not any longer.

    Why you simply pay about £400,fill in some forms,go to the county court,sign a bit of paper and hey presto..those debts disappear !

    So youve had the lifestyle for free. The mugs mentioned above can pay your debts on your behalf.

    After a few years,your slate is clean(ish) and away you go again...to some degree.
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    bendix wrote: »
    And who would be the Germany to this new Greece-like Germany.
    You mean, borrow money cheap and lend it on at higher rates?

    Never any shortage of people willing to buy sovereign debt, so long as the sovereigns in question don't start having crazy ideas like defaulting. Greece's debts would never have been a problem if Greece still had its own central bank. The eurozone took that away and has failed to understand what obligations it took on to fill the breach.
    bendix wrote: »
    Your soul idea is that money can be thrown at things, but you seem a bit vague on where that money comes from.
    The UK national debt was thought to be a major problem when it was £4bn. We still owe that £4bn, but we don't worry about it now. In real money terms, it's 90% sorted without having to come from anywhere. In relation to GDP, even more so.

    Same when taking out a mortgage. How much would people want to borrow if they expected no promotions, no wage growth, no inflation? They'd panic if they had to pay off their mortgages in the same financial environment where they took them out.

    But they hope to move up the wage ladder. Failing that, they hope wages will grow faster than inflation. Failing that, they'll settle for inflation, the more the better, so long as their wages keep pace.

    Savers will moan about inflation eroding their savings, forgetting that they won when it eroded their borrowings.
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • tomterm8
    tomterm8 Posts: 5,892 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    For what it's worth, I think* September 20th will be the day for the Greek Default.

    Because:
    (a) A billion dollars of coupon falls due on the 20th and
    (b) so does an IMF meeting.

    * it's a guess, folks, so don't bet money on it :)
    “The ideas of debtor and creditor as to what constitutes a good time never coincide.”
    ― P.G. Wodehouse, Love Among the Chickens
  • My parents are on holiday there this week, so purchases of 2 days old Daily Mails and milky coffees ("do you have Nescafe Instant?") might help things.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
  • Mrs_Bones
    Mrs_Bones Posts: 15,524 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Combo Breaker
    If / when Greece does announce that they intend to default, what will be the immediate effect be? How soon would it start to affect our economy?
    [FONT=&quot]“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” ~ Maya Angelou[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
  • tomterm8
    tomterm8 Posts: 5,892 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Mrs_Bones wrote: »
    If / when Greece does announce that they intend to default, what will be the immediate effect be? How soon would it start to affect our economy?

    On its own, it is not a huge country, and would not have a huge effect.

    But, it is a bit like the ERM debacle, once one country goes, the markets will probably focus on another one, and then the next...
    “The ideas of debtor and creditor as to what constitutes a good time never coincide.”
    ― P.G. Wodehouse, Love Among the Chickens
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