Mis-sold product damages other products?

Steve_333

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice.

Basically, I bought the following product from Amazon:

[FONT=&quot]" Ex-Pro iPod Mains TRAVEL Charger Charge DUAL - Connect your USB Cable to Mains - for Apple , iPhone, iPhone 3G / 3Gs, 4, i Phone 4, iTouch, iPod, i pod, iPod Mini, iPod Video, iPod shuffle, iPod with Dock Connector, iPod Clickwheel and iPod Colour screen, ipod Color, iPod U2, i Touch, Classic, iPod Nano (2nd/3rd Generation). Charge your ipod on the move simply connect your USB charge cable to this unit."[/FONT]

I was very happy with the product, until I realised that it damaged some of my other electrical equipment. Here's how I know:

I use Pama Juno Bluetooth headsets. After using the charger to charge my headset it stopped working completely. As my headset was pretty old, I put it down to experience and bought a new headset. That worked fine... until I charged it using the USB device from Amazon, and then that too stopped working. I've written to Amazon, and they say they'll be happy to process a return for the USB charger, but as the headsets were not bought from Amazon they cannot refund me for the two devices that have been destroyed by the charger, even thought the evidence as to the cause of the damage is pretty conclusive in my opinion

The Amazon item description states:


· Provides Travel connection for iPod/iPhone/iTouch device USB cables directly to mains instead of charging from USB port. Produces identically to the unit currently supplied by Apple with new iPhone products at a fraction of the prrice.
· 1000mA (1Amp) 5v, 2 Port output - Charge 2 devices at the same time ! - UK Mains operation at 100-240v. 3 Pin UK mains, 2 Pin Mains USA/Canada & 2 Pin Round European. LED Light indication for power.
· CE Approved. ROHS Compliant. High quality device. White Polish finish.
· Short circuit protection. Automatic overland protection and cut off.
· 2 Year exclusive Ex-Pro warranty.


I followed this up with Pama, the makers of the Juno headset, and they said the most likely cause for the damage was the device receiving more than 5V. So, it's not a massive leap of faith of deduce that the USB device allowed a voltage spike which damaged the headsets.


I believe that this counts as mis-selling, and have told Amazon that I'll happily send them the damaged goods if they need proof. However, they are adamant that I'm not entitled to a refund for at least one of the Juno headsets. Does anyone know the law on this? Am I entitled to a compensation for my damaged headsets? If so, who would I need to follow the matter up with? Is this an issue for Trading Standards? Anyone got any advice for me?

Any assistance gratefully received!

Thanks in advance,

Steve.

esuhl

The product description only mentions the possibility of using the device with Apple products. I think the normal current for USB ports would be 550mA, but the charger you bought outputs 1000mA - nearly double! I can't remember much from AS-Level Electronics, so I'm not sure whether that means that the socket can output up to 1000mA, but the connected device will only use what it needs up to 100mA, or if that means you're supplying nearly double the power...

However, even if it's the latter, I would have thought it quite reasonable for people to see a USB socket and assume that it conforms to the normal USB standard, mistakenly (perhaps) concluding that they can charge non-Apple devices using the charger.

I don't know if there's some kind of legislation that might require the retailer to warn customers not to do something like that when such a mistake is clearly forseeable...

Anyway, if you return the product as faulty, then the Sale of Goods Act (SoGA) states that within the first six months after purchase, the retailer must either accept that it is faulty or prove that it isn't. After six months, the burden of proof is on you. If you have suffered consequential losses as a result of a fault, you should ask the retailer for compensation. If the issue goes to court you can sue for damages (although you will be expected to have tried to resolve the issue out of court first).

Hope that helps a bit. There's a few useful links that might help here:

Sale of Goods Act
Business advice: SoGA hub
Which: Understanding the SoGA

shaun_from_Africa

I can't remember much from AS-Level Electronics, so I'm not sure whether that means that the socket can output up to 1000mA, but the connected device will only use what it needs up to 100mA, or if that means you're supplying nearly double the power...

It's the first of your two options
The USB socket can supply upto 1000mA but the device plugged into it will only take the current required to operate or charge it.
It's the same with any electrical supply or charger. The rating is simply the maximum output that it can give.
Just think of a standard household mains socket. These are rated at 13A but the large majority of devices plugged into them will draw far less than this.

Although the main part of the description on the Amazon site only mentions Apple equipment, further down it has this:

Provides Travel DUAL connection for iPod/iPhone/iTouch/Digital Camera/Mp3 Players etc.... (or indeed any device which charges via USB Cable when connected to your PC/Mac) device USB cables directly to mains instead of charging from USB port. Produces identically to the unit currently supplied by Apple/OEM Providers.

Steve_333

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for your useful replies. It sounds like I have a case then, and that the device has been missold. So far, I've returned the product and had a refund. However, Amazon are dead against giving me compensation for the Junos that were written off:

"Please understand that the information provided in our last message correctly represents our policy at this time.
As my colleague previously mentioned, we are not in a position to cover consequential loss and the product mentioned "Ex-Pro iPod Mains TRAVEL Charger" was not advertised as being compatible with the items you mentioned that you purchased elsewhere. Please be advised that we can only stand over items that are purchased directly from our site. Further to this the item is only advertised on our site as being compatible with the following items:

iPhone, iPhone 3G / 3Gs, 4, i Phone 4, iTouch, iPod, i pod, iPod Mini, iPod Video, iPod shuffle, iPod with Dock Connector, iPod Clickwheel and iPod Colour screen, ipod Color, iPod U2, i Touch, Classic, iPod Nano (2nd/3rd Generation).

Thank you for your understanding."


I've replied with the quote from Shaun re: any device, so will be interesting to see what comes back.



We're not talking about massive sums of money here for the Junos so I'm not sure I want the hassle of pursuing this, but if I was to pursue does anyone have any advice as to where to go next?


Thanks in advance,


Steve.

[Deleted User]

Did Amazon fulfil the order directly themselves or was it a third-party trader through Amazon Marketplace?

Steve_333

It was direct from Amazon.

robmar0se

Coming into to this late, The unit in question is 5v and upto 1000ma, therefore it should be able to power anything that needs 5v and does not draw more than 1000ma (Eg some external hdds need upto 1500ma)

There are two caveats to this: 1 if the specification is specific as to what it is for, and/or 2, if Amazon's terms and conditions explicitly excludes consequential loss (which pretty standard).

Read Amazon's T&C in conjunction with the units spec.

Standard output for USB is 4.75-5.25V - I believe that the ipod charger gives 5-5.5V - not absolutely sure about this, but could explain why an ipod charger is bad news.

steve1980

I've read your post a couple of times and what what you're saying you bought an Apple charger (or equivilent) and then proceeded to charge a handsfree earpiece using the charger that is only recommended to be used for Apple products?

If so then I don't see why Amazon have anything to answer to.

vaio

the other view is that he bought a usb charger which should charge anything that conforms to the usb standard.

If the charger is putting out more than the standard usb voltage then it is faulty and the retailer is liable for any equipment that is damaged.

First stage would be a report on the charger to see what sort of voltage it is putting out.

Steve_333

steve1980 wrote: »

I've read your post a couple of times and what what you're saying you bought an Apple charger (or equivilent) and then proceeded to charge a handsfree earpiece using the charger that is only recommended to be used for Apple products?

If so then I don't see why Amazon have anything to answer to.

As you'll see from the above and the product description on Amazon, the charger claims to be compatible with any device that you normally charge from a PC, such as my headsets.

smos585

Hi Interesting case; I read yr post and reread it - I couldn't see anywhere where Amazon said it was a generalised USB charging device

· Provides Travel connection for iPod/iPhone/iTouch device USB cables directly to mains instead of charging from USB port. Produces identically to the unit currently supplied by Apple with new iPhone products at a fraction of the prrice.

Even in yr opening para it says it only is for Apple devices.

Splitting hairs, it is not a USB device, it is mains adapter with a USB socket - I agree yr "mistake" is one that many would make, however it clearly specifies what it is for, so I don't believe that you have a claim as much as I think you should.

There is quite a bit on the net about problems with Apple adapters on Apple kit - so advice to everyone is stear clear of Apple adapters for anything other than apple devices - lesson for everyone