If a bailiff sees something from your window

hallowitch

If the council say I can sell my car to pay off the debts, I will do.

get conformation in writing

find out how many liability orders there are
if there is only one then the levy on the car would be unlawful as he has already levied goods against the debt


can i ask if you have children (how many people are in your household) depending on the answer the first levy could be unlawful also
I would also like to know what charges he has put on both the notice of seizures (to confirm if they are lawful charges)

did you confirm that he was certificated to Equita


get a recorder and i Will tell you what to say to the bailiff (the council will be quick to take the debt back if the find out he has been cheating lying and bulling)


Irregular Distress (Levy) by Bailiffs
[edit]MRS AMBROSE v NOTTINHGAM CITY COUNCIL
This is another well known legal cases that has been relied upon many times when either issuing proceedings, or one that can be referred to when writing a letter of complaint. This case concerns a lady by the name of Mrs Ambrose who claimed that a levy (distress) was irregular as bailiffs had removed goods from the home that were necessary for “providing the basic domestic needs of the family”
Background:
Mrs Ambrose and her husband had an unpaid Council Tax bill for £851.00 owing to Nottingham City Council. In September 2003, Rossendale’s Bailiffs attended at their home to levy distress on goods. Rossendale’s had entered the property, where they identified items that were listed on a Walking Possession. Next to those items listed, the bailiff wrote the words: “and all other goods on the premises unless exempt or specially exempt by statute.” The bailiff had not looked around the house; he had merely entered one room and was therefore unable to see which items were “exempt”
Regulation 45 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 lists the following items as being exempt from seizure
"Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally in employment, business or vocation"
"Such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions as are necessary for satisfying basic domestic needs of the person and family".
As the Council Tax remained unpaid, the bailiff returned with a van to seize furniture that included a sofa, footstool and two dining chairs.
District Judge Cooper agreed that the seizure was irregular as the bailiff had removed furniture that was necessary for “satisfying the basic domestic needs of Mrs Ambrose and her family” This was because, amongst other items removed, the bailiffs had removed 2 dining chairs. They left behind the table and the remaining two chairs. As the family consisted of Mrs & Mrs Ambrose and one child, the bailiffs should have left seating for 3 people, not two.
Nottingham City Council had argued that there could not be any irregularity as Mrs Ambrose had signed the Walking Possession. This was rejected by Judge Cooper who agreed that Mrs Ambrose was faced with the prospect of having her goods removed unless she signed the Walking Possession.
As important as the above is, the Judge also agreed that the wording on the Walking Possession was deficient in that the reference to “all other goods on the premises unless exempt” did not specify what those other goods were, and which ones were exempt. The Judge agreed that the levy was also irregular for this reason.

NATIONAL STANDARDS FOR ENFORCEMENT AGENTS may 2002

List A

1) The following articles belonging to a debtor shall be exempt from distress at the instance of a creditor in respect of a debt due to him by the debtor-
a) clothing reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household;
b) implements, tools of trade, books or other equipment including a car or van reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household in the practice of the debtor's or such member's profession, trade or business, not exceeding in aggregate value £1,000 or such amount as may be prescribed in regulations made by the Lord Chancellor;
c) medical aids or medical equipment reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of his household;
d) books or other articles including a computer reasonably required for the education or training of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household not exceeding in aggregate value £1,000 or such amount as may be prescribed in regulations made by the Lord Chancellor;
e) toys for the use of any child who is a member of the debtor's household;
f) articles reasonably required for the care or upbringing of a child who is a member of the debtor's household.

2) The following articles belonging to a debtor shall be exempt from distress if they are at the time of the distress in a dwellinghouse and are reasonably required for the use in the dwellinghouse of the person residing there or a member of the household-
a) beds or bedding;
b) household linen;
c) chairs or settees;
d) tables;
e) food;
f) lights or light fittings;
g) heating appliances;
h) curtains;
i) floor coverings;
j) furniture, equipment or utensils used for cooking storing or eating food;
k) refrigerators;
l) articles used for cleaning, mending, or pressing clothes;
m) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse;
n) furniture used for storing-
(i) clothing, bedding or household linen;
(ii) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse; or
(iii) utensils used for cooking or eating food;

o) articles used for safety in the dwellinghouse or of household articles
3) The Lord Chancellor may by regulations add to the list set out in subsection (2) above, or delete or vary any of the items contained in that list.
We consider that under 1(b) and 1(d) the preferable aggregate value might be £1500.

List B

Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally by the tenant in their employment, business or vocation and such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions are as necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of the debtor and his family.

hallowitch

Jerryjerryjerry wrote: »

Does anybody know what could happen to me if I were to go to the nearest garage and sell them my car. I could say that I didn't see the levy note.

you could be charged with theft the car legally does not belong to you

Jerryjerryjerry

hallowitch wrote: »

If the council say I can sell my car to pay off the debts, I will do.

get conformation in writing

OK
find out how many liability orders there are
How do I go about finding this out?

if there is only one then the levy on the car would be unlawful as he has already levied goods against the debt

Yes. Of course.
can i ask if you have children (how many people are in your household)
We don't have any children who live in our house with us.

depending on the answer the first levy could be unlawful also
I would also like to know what charges he has put on both the notice of seizures (to confirm if they are lawful charges)
That's weird. On the first Notice of Seizure he's not ticked any of the boxes. ie.. there are 3 boxes. Council Tax, Non Domestic Rates and Penalty Charge Notice. He has left all three BLANK. Then he has listed the items:
Samsung 40" t.v.
Acer T Notebook
Wicker Two piece suite
Two seater Settee
Arm chair
Glass display cabinet
exercise bike x 2
sideboard with drawers
dining table and chairs
mini cd/radio + speakers.

Payment due to preven the removal of goods.

AND THEN he has signed where it says signed bayliff and dated. Then he's put total amount if paid today £1,414.25

He's definitely with Equita. Don't know if he's certified or anything. But he does have a bayliff number.



did you confirm that he was certificated to Equita

No. I didnt'. Could I ring Equita and ask them?
get a recorder and i Will tell you what to say to the bailiff (the council will be quick to take the debt back if the find out he has been cheating lying and bulling)

Jerryjerryjerry

hallowitch wrote: »

you could be charged with theft the car legally does not belong to you

Oh. What a mess.

Thanks.

chappers

Firstly the levy, is there any way you could scan in a copy(with your personal details blanked out).

Also as has been said above if there is only a limited amount of furniture in the house, he may have levied items he is not entitled to, also he cannot levy anything that does not belong to you, is on hire purchase or under acredit agreement etc.,

Also you really need to find out how many liability orders there are against you, I suspect there is only one otherwise you would have had previous visits from the bailiffs. If there is only one liability order than one or both of the levies could be invalid.

Did the bailiff genuinely gain access to your property, ask your painter straight tell him you are not angry with him but just need to know the facts so you can defend your position accurately.

With regards to the actual council tax be prepared for a fight I had a similar issue here in Oxford with an empty property I owned, the councils defence to an exemption will be you should have informed them at the start of the void period. But stick to your guns with as much evidence as possible.

Depending on the state of your property depends on the period of exemption;

If just vacant and unfurnished then the period of exemption is 6 months in any 12 month period.

If the property is un-inhabitable then there is no fixed period, but the council tax will become liable 3 months from substantial completion and this is assesed by the council and open to interpretation.

The main problem you have is you are applying for exemption after the fact you will have to fight hard with the council, get as much evidence as you can together, eg photos of the works in process, reciepts from tradesmen and witness statements if possible.

The process I went through went like this.

1. get the council to agree the property did have some form of exemption
2. write to them explaining that the liability order was therefore invalid
3.write to the bailiffs stateing the same as even though the council may agree with you they will try and still get their fees from you.

If you would like then pm me with your e-mail address and I will forward you copies of the letters I sent to both the bailiffs and the council on this matter.

Cheers
Gareth

P.S Having looked through my letters to the council, I did pay the council (but only the council tax)to stop the bailiff action, under protest and not as an admission of validity. DONT PAY THE BAILIFFS the council cannot refuse any payment you make.

hallowitch

AND THEN he has signed where it says signed bailiff and dated. Then he's put total amount if paid today £1,414.25

This could be a good thing it looks like he has levied these goods against both debts (if there is 2 )

can you tell me what he has put as

outstanding debt
levy fee
and any other fee he has added

can you tell me what he has put on the notice of seizure for the car to include the above

have a look on both notice of seizures and tell me what he has put on them for
council ref no
Equita ref no

I want to know if both are the same

if you PM his name i Will look and see if he is certificated

lets find out if the levy on the car is lawful before you do anything

hallowitch

Phone the council and ask how many liability orders they have
the date of the liability order(s)
when they were passed to Eqita

the amount of the liability order(s) if this £1,414.25 includes bailiffs fees i would say there is only one liability order and you have been charged

1st visit fee
2nd visit fee
levy fee (this depends on the amount of the liability order)
Hedder H fee (cant be charged at this stage of enforcement)
enforcement fee (no such fee but often charged )

GOOD post chappers i would also like to see the notice of seizures

Jerryjerryjerry

chappers wrote: »

Firstly the levy, is there any way you could scan in a copy(with your personal details blanked out).

Also as has been said above if there is only a limited amount of furniture in the house, he may have levied items he is not entitled to, also he cannot levy anything that does not belong to you, is on hire purchase or under acredit agreement etc.,

Also you really need to find out how many liability orders there are against you, I suspect there is only one otherwise you would have had previous visits from the bailiffs. If there is only one liability order than one or both of the levies could be invalid.

Did the bailiff genuinely gain access to your property, ask your painter straight tell him you are not angry with him but just need to know the facts so you can defend your position accurately.

Both husband and I have asked him several times, and he's adamant he did not let him in. We said what you've said, we told him we are not angry.. etc. etc. He says he did not let him in.

With regards to the actual council tax be prepared for a fight I had a similar issue here in Oxford with an empty property I owned, the councils defence to an exemption will be you should have informed them at the start of the void period. But stick to your guns with as much evidence as possible.

Depending on the state of your property depends on the period of exemption;

If just vacant and unfurnished then the period of exemption is 6 months in any 12 month period.

If the property is un-inhabitable then there is no fixed period, but the council tax will become liable 3 months from substantial completion and this is assesed by the council and open to interpretation.

The main problem you have is you are applying for exemption after the fact you will have to fight hard with the council, get as much evidence as you can together, eg photos of the works in process, reciepts from tradesmen and witness statements if possible.

The process I went through went like this.

1. get the council to agree the property did have some form of exemption
2. write to them explaining that the liability order was therefore invalid
3.write to the bailiffs stateing the same as even though the council may agree with you they will try and still get their fees from you.

If you would like then pm me with your e-mail address and I will forward you copies of the letters I sent to both the bailiffs and the council on this matter.

Cheers
Gareth

P.S Having looked through my letters to the council, I did pay the council (but only the council tax)to stop the bailiff action, under protest and not as an admission of validity. DONT PAY THE BAILIFFS the council cannot refuse any payment you make.

I have managed to scan the document. Then I had to load it up to a server thing. And then i've managed to link it here. Sorry, i'm not very techy.

Jerryjerryjerry

At last. If you click on this link. Then double click on the actual siezure, you should be able to see it. A bit long winded, i'm sorry.

http://www2.snapfish.co.uk/snapfishuk/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=7068044007/a=78509634_78509634/otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfishuk/

Jerryjerryjerry

hallowitch wrote: »

AND THEN he has signed where it says signed bailiff and dated. Then he's put total amount if paid today £1,414.25

This could be a good thing it looks like he has levied these goods against both debts (if there is 2 )

can you tell me what he has put as

outstanding debt
levy fee
and any other fee he has added

can you tell me what he has put on the notice of seizure for the car to include the above

have a look on both notice of seizures and tell me what he has put on them for
council ref no
Equita ref no

I want to know if both are the same

if you PM his name i Will look and see if he is certificated

lets find out if the levy on the car is lawful before you do anything

Hi there!

Oooh.. you lot are BRILLIANT on here!

Anyway... I have now scanned the notice. Please have a look. Hope you can see it.

The other one, for the car, is dated 8/09 and is at home. Will not be able to scan that one now over the week-end, but will let you know what it says tonight.

Going to ring the council now. To see how many liabilities i have.