Care of Protection Order Warning

The_Rat

For the past 15mths the father in law has been residing in a care home suffering dementia. My wife visits her dad 2 to 3 times a week often taking him out for a drive to the sea at weekends. During this time she has spent over £2000 of her own money ensuring he has a better quality of life. She thinks nothing of the money but has to continue at work to give her more money to assist her dad even though she could have retired like me. The sum involved includes meals, drinks, petrol, haircuts and clothing. The father in law is subject of a Care of Protection order which is run by his younger sister who has turned out to be a complete control freak. She refuses to give any monies to her father or my wife and says it’s all to pay for the care home. Recently his home was sold and again my wife had no say in it even though her deceased mother left her as one of the two executers in her will. It appears the COP order gives the sister in law complete control of all monies etc. Having recently spoken to the Guardians Office they say it’s a family dispute and not their problem.
So be warned should anyone be in the same process ensure you completely trust the person who is taking out a COP order, I didn’t trust my sister in law but the rest of the family have now left it too late to do anything.

Gingernutty

It's "Court of Protection" and your SIL has probably got a Deputyship Order.

"Recently his home was sold and again my wife had no say in it even though her deceased mother left her as one of the two executers in her will"

Yup. When your MIL died, it doesn't matter who the executors of her will were but who inherited what. If your FIL inherited the house from his late wife then it is his to do with as he sees fit or as his Deputy sees as being in your FIL's interest. The subject of losing the family home to pay for care home fees is one close to many families' hearts at the moment and will carry on being a huge issue.

If you OH was mentioned in the will and actually inherited a share of the house, then that is a whooooooole other ball game. Her share must now be rendered to her and only your FIL's share of the proceeds of the house should be used on his behalf.

The father in law is subject of a Care of Protection order which is run by his younger sister who has turned out to be a complete control freak. She refuses to give any monies to her father or my wife and says it’s all to pay for the care home.

Yup. The new responsibilities of being a Deputy can do that to you.

Now. The money from the sale of the house is to be spent on your FIL, his care home fees and any legitimate expenses of the Deputy. That means the Deputy should be paying not just for the care home fees but also for care and 'comforts' - like new clothes, haircuts, days out and the like. Stuff that he might have bought or paid for if he were capable of doing so.

So, for example, if he can still enjoy reading and subscribed to a particular magazine, then he still can - the Deputy should be buying the magazine or subscribing to it for him.

I was my Uncle's Deputy and was regularly billed by the care home for haircuts, nail and chiropody visits and so on. I used my Uncle's money to buy him new clothes, pay the insurance bond to cover the amount of money held by the Court of Protection and also to pay for little bits and pieces he'd like - he loved music, so I recorded his albums onto cassettes, paid for a 'ghetto blaster' to play them and for CDs that I thought he'd like.

I also bought a Funeral Pre-Payment Plan from the Co-Op when my Uncle's health took a major turn for the worst and he ended up in hospital. He recovered and we didn't need to put it into action for a few years. That was money well spent - it took a lot of hassle and heartache out of organising and paying for the funeral.

You may be able to come to some arrangement where you hand over the receipts and she can arrange payment if her Ward (your FIL) benefited. There is a process at the end of the Deputyship year (yup, seriously) where a long form has to be filled in detailling:

*Money entering the Deputyship account - benefits, pensions, proceeds from the sale of the house etc

*Money exiting the Deputyship account - care home fees, haircuts, chirpodist, insurance payments, new clothes - all with entries on different pages and all needing receipts

My arithmetic is atrocious and every year (around the middle of February), I'd end up trying to work out why

Money In - Money Out didn't = Balance of the account.

I was always whole £10s or £20s out and it took hours of sweating and recalculating to work out where I was going wrong.

You SIL seems to have misunderstood the terms and conditions of the Deputyship - there are forums and helplines available as the Court of Protection understand that lay people have trouble getting to grips with it all.

You might be able to come to some arrangement - but she'll need receipts to back your purchases for your FIL - there is also a mechanism whereby gifts can be given on your FIL's behalf IF it's the sort of thing he'd have done.

Again, as an example - if he becomes a grandfather, the Deputy can buy a card and put a £50 into it for the babby on your FIL's behalf - signing it from Grandaddy.

Part of the exact wording in the order I have is

".........provided that the value of each such gift is not unreasonable having regard to all the circumstances, and in particular the size of the patient's estate, and does not exceed £500 for any one person or charity in any one year."

Edit : And fees. The Court of Protection will be gouging your SIL for fees which then come out of your FIL's account - for applying to become a Deputy, for the administration of the account ("Supervision of the Account"), for particular transactions - hundreds and hundreds of ££££s in fees.

And they say they're acting in the best interests of the client.

HTH

The_Rat

Thanks but we don't expect to hear from our sister in law again we shall just carry on doing the best for the father in law. It was just a warning to others that once someone has got the Court of Protection Order then their is little other members of the family can do.

Kay_Peel

Personally speaking, I wouldn't claim for petrol, meals or other expenses involved in taking my father out for day trips. I would have enjoyed them too! We would both have benefitted.

It's different where you've had to provide him essential clothing or extras for his comfort and care - but in that case I would have consulted the Deputy beforehand.

I think the warning is to communicate, consult and clarify things BEFORE you spend and claim.

The_Rat

The deputy refuses point blank to pay out for anything other than pay for the care home. My wife feels that her dad deserves the things she pays for, as she does not like him walking around a mess. It's just sad that when out he takes his wallet out and says I've got no money even to pay for a cup of tea. The deputy refuses to give him any money and only sees her dad one a month for a couple of hours. The only member of the family doing anything is my wife, the rest couldn't care less.

ConfusedDep

I was appointed Deputy for my grandmother after a family fall out. As part of the hearing the judge asked what the contents of the will were so that if the house had been left in a particular way he was going to do a variation.

I also provided (the children) in my case with six monthly reports. I made sure my grandmother was taken care of and was interviewed yearly by someone from COP to check I was doing everything right as well as having to send bank statements in.

I also didn't charge for trips out etc but essentials listed. If you suspect that your father in law is missing out on essentials ask the care home staff it may be that arrangements have been made that they provide things and charge in the main bill. If your having to provide essentials ask the first time, second time say shall I get it and provide you with the reciept?

After that get it keep receipts and make a fuss with social services and COP if COP fob you off ask to speak to the supervision team and say you suspect abuse what are they going to do about it. You think you will contact your MP. I got investigated all the time due to family upset so I made sure I did everything right.

The COP were incredibly slow but if you make a fuss they do tend to deal with you. Did you get notified that your SIL was going to be handling the affairs?

Morglin

My mother (non-mobile, advanced dementia) is in a care home, and has recently been left a very large (£800k) bequest from her brother.

Obviously, this bequest will have care home costs and investment issues, so the family decided to make our solicitor 'the deputy' from a COP order, which has just come through.

I know he will take fees, but, to be honest, I don't get on that well with my brother, and I hope it takes any heat out of any problems -the thought of any more arguments and stress leaves me cold.

At least if a professional is doing it, there's no emotion in it.

Lin

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