Student loans for very mature students

Firefox1975

dizzyrascal wrote: »

What utter rubbish. Total mis-information.

I was ranting. My terminology was also incorrect.

Think about it a different way. large blue chip companies are very interested in outstanding up and coming newcomers. (They even sponsor teh student through the last year of their courses sometimes.)

in order to do this they are affiliated with the uni in their city. i.e they come in and do talks, presentatons etc.to the students.

Have alook around the university, you will see advertising for these companies. THIS is what I meant. the unis and businessess go hand in hand to nurture and develop the students.

The key word is "business" and it revolves around finance. Money/services changes hands somewhere down the line.

Sorry, it is obviously a delicate area of business for both the unis and the companies and it isn;t as clear cut as handing £10,000 over for each student that gets a job afterwards. Funnily enough both parties are smarter than that.

Like I said, my initial reply was generalised, hope ive shined a bit more light onto it and you can see my point. If im wrong, fair enough.

Firefox1975

davestretty wrote: »

Hi Firefox thanks for your input but apart from being so obviously ageist and judgemental of my abilities, you are correct - you really don't get it - at all -in any way whatsoever. Any useful, intelligent contributions are gratefully accepted -this was neither.
HBS -please don't be irritated, I only wish to clarify a complicated and confusing situation

You have very low morals.

It isn't a "complicated and confusing" situation. You are trying to seal yourself a "watertight" deal up front that leaves you financially in the clear with an unpayable interest free loan. Obviously these kind of deals are hammered out all teh time by financial institutions. <sic>

No one on here can answer that. you need to discuss it with the people who make the loans. If they are stupid enough to let you have the money then fair enough. If not, tough. What will you do? take them to court for "ageism"? (please?)

Anyway - thanks for getting my day off to a flying start. I work in finance and today i will be keeping all of my "beans" very close to my chest!:cool:

GotToChange

Firefox1975 wrote: »

You have very low morals.

It isn't a "complicated and confusing" situation. You are trying to seal yourself a "watertight" deal up front that leaves you financially in the clear with an unpayable interest free loan. Obviously these kind of deals are hammered out all teh time by financial institutions. <sic>

No one on here can answer that. you need to discuss it with the people who make the loans. If they are stupid enough to let you have the money then fair enough. If not, tough. What will you do? take them to court for "ageism"? (please?)

Anyway - thanks for getting my day off to a flying start. I work in finance and today i will be keeping all of my "beans" very close to my chest!:cool:

I think calling his morals into question is needless and judgemental. To be frank, I think people who did not have the chance (and wanted/were academically able) to go to university when it WAS "free" should be able to somehow make up for that.
Personally, I study with the OU - and even that would be out of my financial reach from this year were it not for the transitional fee structure for current students.

I have been "tempted" (every other issue re HE as a mature student notwithstanding) to look at what Dave is doing - but I actually never really consider the fact that there is a way to avoid repaying the loans - which in themselves are somewhat immoral, do you not agree? Rather, I always think that I will be saddled immediately with loan repayments after graduation (which is me rather optimistically thinking that I would - hahaha -straight away - hahaha - then get a well-paying job. Again - hahaha), so Dave's take on it (call it plan if you like....) is rather refreshing to me.

(Incidentally, What fees did you pay - if, as I am supposing, you were a 1975 baby?)

There is also something rather repugnant about finance folk who behave as if the money they manage is their own. I am sure that "your"(?) "beans" will be quite safe from the Daves of this world.

Firefox1975

GotToChange wrote: »

(Incidentally, What fees did you pay - if, as I am supposing, you were a 1975 baby?)

There is also something rather repugnant about finance folk who behave as if the money they manage is their own. I am sure that "your"(?) "beans" will be quite safe from the Daves of this world.

I actually quit uni 3 months into the course! didn;t fancy being a scientist so went and got a job and studied at college whilst I was working. I honestly can't remember what the fees were, i know I didn;t get a grant cos my sister was still at uni and she got the lot! :-)

well , we have to protect it! even though it isn;t ours!

But your reply was well constructed and I do see your point.

Almo

GotToChange wrote: »

I think calling his morals into question is needless and judgemental. To be frank, I think people who did not have the chance (and wanted/were academically able) to go to university when it WAS "free" should be able to somehow make up for that.

How about those of us who did pay fees after Labour introduced them in 98? I paid my own way through uni and now have to pay that back (which is fine, it was my choice to go). Saying that you should be able to make up for missing out on 'free' uni is effectively saying that if you're over a certain age you should get something that those under that age don't get. Or ageism, to be succinct. Exactly what the OP is complaining about.

Don't misunderstand me, I think it's disgraceful that Labour introduced fees after benefiting from a free tertiary education themselves and I'd have loved to see them pay that back as a gesture of support for their own policies, but that's never going to happen now.

More power to you, dave, if you want to go to uni. You have every right to go. But taking out a loan you have no intention of ever paying back certainly doesn't put you in a position to take the moral high ground over Cameron. You may or may not be depriving another student of a place (if you win one fairly and squarely I don't really see that this is an issue, depending on the course you do) but you are making the student loans of the future more expensive.

GotToChange

I must correct the impression that I may have given that I agree with fees at all.
I don't.
I certainly don't agree with the current levels.

And in some senses, yes, I AM age-ist. (Please don't get me started on immigration either.)






And I park in the parent-and-child places at the supermarket, rebel that I am.

Almo

GotToChange wrote: »

And I park in the parent-and-child places at the supermarket, rebel that I am.

Well we agree on both the issue of fees and the parking in parent-and-child places then

ETA: I don't agree with fees and I definitely don't agree with a target of 50% of people attending uni. I think that devalues both uni and other forms of tertiary education (including apprenticeships/trades). Felt compelled to add that.

GotToChange

Almo wrote: »

Well we agree on both the issue of fees and the parking in parent-and-child places then

ETA: I don't agree with fees and I definitely don't agree with a target of 50% of people attending uni. I think that devalues both uni and other forms of tertiary education (including apprenticeships/trades). Felt compelled to add that.

Agreed a thousand times over.
From a personal standpoint, I will not be satisfied until I have achieved the HE goal. As so much time has passed, I may be awarded it as I am lowered into the ground - but, as you say above, tertiary education has been devalued and any intrinsic value that a degree may have is overshadowed by the conveyor belt of churning out happy (but in debt) and over-educated little worker bees.
A nasty nasty vicious circle.

dizzyrascal

Firefox1975 wrote: »

I was ranting. My terminology was also incorrect.

Think about it a different way. large blue chip companies are very interested in outstanding up and coming newcomers. (They even sponsor teh student through the last year of their courses sometimes.)

Yes they do. The student has to apply to the company and get offered the sponsorship deal and they will have to sign and agree to a contract to work for the company for X amount of years. This does not involve a university in any form.

in order to do this they are affiliated with the uni in their city. i.e they come in and do talks, presentatons etc.to the students.
Companies do come in and do talks and presentations. They pay to do it, conference rooms and catering do not come for free, so in that way they may make some income for the university but it is the companies own recruitment budget that pays for it all.

Have alook around the university, you will see advertising for these companies. THIS is what I meant. the unis and businessess go hand in hand to nurture and develop the students.
Whilst the big global companies do have deep pockets it is for their own recruitment, you might also notice that small charities and SME's are also catered for (most probably for free, if it is seen to add some balance)

The key word is "business" and it revolves around finance. Money/services changes hands somewhere down the line.

Everything is invoiced and audited so I don't see your point. You can of course ask the universities these questions if you want through the Freedom of Information Act

Sorry, it is obviously a delicate area of business for both the unis and the companies and it isn;t as clear cut as handing £10,000 over for each student that gets a job afterwards. Funnily enough both parties are smarter than that.

Every student who leaves university has had to go through all the normal routes to get a job. Unless of course Mummy or Daddy can employ them.

Like I said, my initial reply was generalised, hope ive shined a bit more light onto it and you can see my point. If im wrong, fair enough
You're wrong!

davestretty

Low morals eh - from someone who works in "finance" ! (Insurance miss-selling, fraudulent bankers bonuses, illegal bank charges, tax avoidance, sub prime mortgages etc etc etc) now that really is a laugh. Do I smell some of "Thatcher's children" coming out of the woodwork. How dare any of you question my motivation. Did "you" go to university - obviously not for your own benefit but to serve mankind and save the world - what rank hypocrisy. I'm sure you only work to pay tax and contribute to our society, not for any personal gain. I'm sure you all hang your heads as you cash your child benefit, tax credits, state pension etc. while holidaying in the sun. When I reach pension age of 65 and my wife 60 (sorry now it's 66 for both us - Kerching to Cameron's govt) we may have sufficient income to start paying back the loan - at which point should we employ an accountant to root out a way to avoid it? no I am no that morally corrupt. I will say though that if I win a million on the lottery (or pocket a fat million pound bonus) I will gladly pay it all back including any child benefit, tax credits, and pension that I have ever received - doesn't everyone do that?

I must say Gottochange has "got it" right, although containing a serious question relating to the disgraceful and unfair student funding system, this has become largely hypothetical and not a little tongue in cheek, I will be far too busy financing and helping my children through university and joblessness to ever fulfil my own dreams. In fact I will probably in all reality have to work 'til I drop and sell all I have earned to fund care in my old age. Sir (spelt CUR) Fred Goodwin won't be doing that will he! Don't we live in wonderful world.