Legal Advice Needed-Dispute Over Late Mothers House

donkey1969

DebbsUK wrote: »

I just dont know which solicitor I should go for have tried loads, none have helped, I might part own a house but have no money to pay these people, n I know if push comes to shove they will take alot of money from us. Solicitors I have contacted have said conveyand, some said litigation, no idea, what a numpty, an I consider myself quite intelligent, fall short with this.

Don't beat yourself up, it's not something one would normally have to deal with.

martindow

GDB2222 wrote: »

I'd be very cautious about this. You'd be committing a criminal offence if you tried to break in when brother is present, and the police would arrest you for sure. I'm not quite so sure about the position if he is out, but I wouldn't risk it.

Is this right? The OP is joint owner so surely could let himself into the house at any time (with a locksmith's help if necessary). My worry would be more about the reaction of the brother who thinks it is his house rather than being arrested.

Cheeky_Monkey

DebbsUK wrote: »

my mother told me he would do this and would want everything, and tried to get me to get a will sorted, but didnt want to think about that at the time, did manage to get half way in the end but she died that week. 3, I want to severe all ties with him and as much as I dont want to make this personal it is, I know how badly he treated my mother, he is 46yrs old and has always lived with her, he beat her so badly the police said she looked like she had been hit by a boxer, I cant let him have his own way anymore, even on the night she died, he stole money from her bank account, he thinks the world owes him a living, I have to stop him. Sorry but anniversary is coming up I have to do what she wanted or least try.

OMG all sorts of unthinkable things are going through my mind reading this!
You have my utmost sympathy having to deal with such a horrendous situation.

G_M

GDB2222 wrote: »

I'd be very cautious about this. You'd be committing a criminal offence if you tried to break in when brother is present, and the police would arrest you for sure. I'm not quite so sure about the position if he is out, but I wouldn't risk it.

OK - I'm no criminal lawyer. But are you sure? Breaking into your own house with/without a locksmith? Well, if in doubt, call in to the local cop shop and tell them in advance. Say you fear a breach of the peace and can they come and observe. If brother turns aggressive, they should then intervene (hopefully on your side!).

OK - over to the lawyers now....

RAS

GDB2222 wrote: »

I'd be very cautious about this. You'd be committing a criminal offence if you tried to break in when brother is present, and the police would arrest you for sure. I'm not quite so sure about the position if he is out, but I wouldn't risk it.

Wrong, at least in England and Wales. If you have anything to do with the threads on DV elsewhere on the forums, you will know that legally the biggest problem is that any person who is on the deeds or on a tenancy agreement has the legal right to enter or live in the house. If the person remaining in the house changes the locks, the other party has the legal right to bring in a locksmith or call the police to assist entry.

So the OP can go to the house any time s/he want and enter and gain access using a locksmith if necessary.

So the starting point would be to demand a copy of all the keys as legally required.

The only way to get the errant brother out would be to get a restraining order, based on his previous and documented history of violence.

Sadly, unless the OP or her brother are prepared to make them selves at home, preferably with a few burly friends, there is a real risk he will then try to damage the house. So they need to sort this out.

puddy

is it something to do with squatters law?

however if it is, i thought this was about protecting someone that is in the actual home from being removed, not about actually entering your own home

for example, if someone enters my home while im out, he is protected by law from being removed (until i get a court order or the police under the dispossessed residential owner legislation in criminal law) but there is nothing preventing me from entering the home and being in the house with the squatter, although obviously at that point i would phone the police to report a trespasser/burglar

Gingernutty

I'm sorry to have to tell you that as your mother died intestate (without a will) then all three of you must inherit. Regardless of what your mother wanted.

The usual thing would be to sell the house and contents, pay off any debts and legal fees and then split the remainder three ways.

A lot of legal firms have valuers and auctioneers working with them or on their books who can sort a lot of the practicalities out - house clearance auctions occur all over the country.

If your idiot brother knew that he can't be disinherited and will get one third of the estate after tax, debts and fees are tallied up, he might get some sense into his head and start co-operating.

Of course, it would stick in your craw for the rest of eternity - but at least you could draw a line under the whole episode........Sorry for your loss.

GDB2222

G_M wrote: »

OK - I'm no criminal lawyer. But are you sure? Breaking into your own house with/without a locksmith? Well, if in doubt, call in to the local cop shop and tell them in advance. Say you fear a breach of the peace and can they come and observe. If brother turns aggressive, they should then intervene (hopefully on your side!).

OK - over to the lawyers now....

Yes, I am sure

Section 6 [Criminal Law Act 1977] creates an offence of using or threatening unauthorised violence for the purpose of securing entry into any premises, while there is known to be a person inside opposing entry. Violence is taken to include violence to property, as well as to people.

This section has been widely used by squatters in England and Wales, as it makes it a crime in most circumstances for the landlord to force entry, as long as the squatters are physically present and express opposition to the landlord's entry. It should be noted that 'squatters rights' do not apply when the property apppears to be occupied (e.g. there are signs of current use, furniture, etc). Section 6 is referred to in printed legal warnings, which are commonly displayed near the entrances to squatted buildings. Squatters are not protected by the Protection from Eviction Act 1977, which makes it a crime to evict tenants without following the legal process.

Reasonable force used by a bailiff executing a possession order would not be considered unauthorised violence, so landlords can still legally regain possession through the courts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_Act_1977#Section_6_-_Violence_for_securing_entry


Especially if you warn the Police in advance, it's a dead easy arrest for them. And there's no point asking in advance, as they are not a legal advice centre.

The point that's being missed is that the brother has the same rights as any other squatter. Property owners can't just go round and barge in if there is someone on the premises. That's why squatters don't leave the place empty, ever! Otherwise, the owner can counter-squat.

Of course, if brother is on his own, he's bound to go out occasionally and leave the place unoccupied. It's a moot point whether teh OP can go and enter it whilst he's out, but she'd better get advice on that one.

I don't think there's any choice for her. She needs to do this legally, and it's going to cost a shedload of money. The best she can hope for is a solicitor who is prepared to defer his fee until the house is sold. It may be possible to get it from the errant brother's share, though. The longer she hesitates, the worse teh situation becomes.

G_M

GDB2222 wrote: »

Yes, I am sure

Section 6 [Criminal Law Act 1977] creates an offence of using or threatening unauthorised violence for the purpose of securing entry into any premises, while there is known to be a person inside opposing entry. Violence is taken to include violence to property, as well as to people.

I don't think there's any choice for her. ......

Errr....

Wait till he goes out?

RAS

In that case, the police, DV charities and solicitors have been getting it massively wrong for decades!!!!!!!!!!!!! And when the husband turned up and took expensive household items to sell to fund his drug habit, the police had to stop him. They and her lawyers tioold her there was nothing she or they could do because he was on the tenancy agreement.

Wait til he goes out?