Lost Property Charges on Railways

custardy

thenudeone wrote: »

That would clearly be Theft as defined by the Theft Act 1968

would it?
the theft act states if you find something you must retain it for the owner to collect and you cannot dispose of it?

Empty_pockets

Privatisation of the railways. Worst thing that ever happened in their 400 year history.

Hammyman

Empty_pockets wrote: »

Privatisation of the railways. Worst thing that ever happened in their 400 year history.

Because British Rail never charged for lost property did they?

thenudeone

custardy wrote: »

would it?
the theft act states if you find something you must retain it for the owner to collect and you cannot dispose of it?

The original post was:

Originally Posted by custardy
or they could simply dispose of items carelessly left on their property?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1
Basic definition of theft.
(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.
(2)It is immaterial whether the appropriation is made with a view to gain, or is made for the thief’s own benefit
“Dishonestly”
(1)A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest—
(a)if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person; or
(b)if he appropriates the property in the belief that he would have the other’s consent if the other knew of the appropriation and the circumstances of it; or
(c)(except where the property came to him as trustee or personal representative) if he appropriates the property in the belief that the person to whom the property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps


So would disposing of found property when no steps have been taken to identify the owner, count as theft? Probably - yes.

rking999

The main point is that the same company, First Group, advertises one set of prices for First Great Western & then no prices for First Capital Connect. What I am seeking is a reason why the retrieval of a briefcase costs £3 from First Great Western & £10 from First Capital Connect. What reason justifies the increase of 233% in admin charges? The only reason I can think of is that they believe they can get away with charging more for lost property in the capital.

The charges from the First Great Western website are as follows:

BandChargeDescription A £20 Laptop computers, video cameras, DVD players and other large items of electrical equipment. B £10 Mobile phones, pagers, Blackberrys/PDAs, MP3 players/personal stereo equipment (e.g. iPod), gaming consoles (e.g. Nintendo PSP, Xbox). C £3 Items of jewellery, watches, cameras, filofax/ personal organisers, suitcases, rucksacks, briefcases, handbags, wallets/purses, clothing items, musical instruments, bicycles, skis, surfboards. D £2 Gloves/scarves/hats, books, umbrellas, CDs, DVDs, spectacles, keys, prams/pushchairs. E No charge Items of prescription medication




Regardless of how careful you are there is always going to be a time when you forget something - happens to everyone. If you leave your coat in a restaurant would you expect to pay £10 to get it back? If you did, would you go back there?

I am now going to pursue this with Passenger Focus, will update with any responses.

robt_2

You need to accept that they are not 'the same company'. They just have the same parent company.

Good luck, but it is not something I would personally waste my time on.

wealdroam

rking999 wrote: »

If you leave your coat in a restaurant would you expect to pay £10 to get it back?

No I wouldn't.
But I expect I would be collecting it quite soon after leaving it there.

On the National Express East Anglia website I linked to earlier, they state...

We do not make a charge for any items that are reclaimed within 24 hours of being found.

No idea if FGW or FCC have a similar policy.

How long before you claimed your briefcase?

A restaurant is a much smaller operation than a railway company.
In a restaurant all that probably happens with lost property is that it is put to one side.
With a railway company, they probably need to catalogue the item somehow, and ship it to a central repository. All that costs money.

You suggested earlier that you expected the cost of managing lost property to be included in the cost of the ticket you had purchased.
Why do you think I, who has never had the need to use railway lost property services, and others should subsidise the carelessness of the few that do?

rking999

I remembered I had left it on the train as the doors were closing - there isnt much of a window to remember you have forgotten your item & not being able to get it back!

As for the call to lost property, I made this within an hour of getting off the train.

Not sure I agree with your point on subsidising the cost of a service that you personally arent going to use. There are plenty of services that are paid for by the masses that as individuals we either dont take advantage of or dont use i.e. (text alerts to your phone, email alerts, cycle storage, assisted travel) These are all services that a rail company provide that I dont use, but I am happy to pay for out of the price of my ticket. What is the difference between a lost property service & these services?

custardy

thenudeone wrote: »

The original post was:

Originally Posted by custardy
or they could simply dispose of items carelessly left on their property?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1
Basic definition of theft.
(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.
(2)It is immaterial whether the appropriation is made with a view to gain, or is made for the thief’s own benefit
“Dishonestly”
(1)A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest—
(a)if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person; or
(b)if he appropriates the property in the belief that he would have the other’s consent if the other knew of the appropriation and the circumstances of it; or
(c)(except where the property came to him as trustee or personal representative) if he appropriates the property in the belief that the person to whom the property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps


So would disposing of found property when no steps have been taken to identify the owner, count as theft? Probably - yes.

tannoy announcement
no answer
oh well off it goes
semantics are fun

wealdroam

rking999 wrote: »

As for the call to lost property, I made this within an hour of getting off the train.

Well, the question was...

wealdroam wrote: »

How long before you claimed your briefcase?

In other words... how long was it between them ringing you to say they had your briefcase and you going to City Thameslink to collect your case?

If less than 24 hours, perhaps you could suggest to them that they should adopt a similar policy to that used by NXEA.