Missed council tax payment and summons for non payment

Flyboy152

vax2002 wrote: »

You can not defend yourself in court...because they do not take you to court, its a sham , they "summons = invite you to a room in the court hired by the council, they even sit some cleaners, or who ever they can get their hands on to sit behind the magistrates bench and pretend to be magistrates in a hired spare court room.
One huge Sham.
That is why you can not have the evidence, because you are not going to court
Request a personal hearing in front of a REAL magistrate who will swear upon oath they are a magistrate then ask for the evidence they claim to have, ask the magistrates to grant a adjournment and issue an order for this letter they claim to have sent to be produced.

Where on Earth do you get this stuff from?

carpangler1

Flyboy152 wrote: »

Where on Earth do you get this stuff from?

No idea but there is various stuff on the net similar to the suggestion that it's not a 'real' court and all that. However, I always take things like that with a pinch of salt, though I guess some must read it as fact. To me a court summons is serious and it's ignored, or not taken seriously, at your own risk. That's why I have paid the oustanding amount promptly and then sort out the issue out of how they have done this and whether procedure has been followed. I've no intention of going to court if I can I avoid it.

HappyMJ

carpangler1 wrote: »

Thanks all. I agree with what you say over the hassel factor. I've paid and will not go to court. The issue for me is whether they have followed correct procedure for issuing a summons. I've tried speaking to them and they don't seem to want to move over the right to lose monthly payments. The original council tax bill does mention about losing rights to monthly payments for missed payments, so I'm stuck there. The actual cost is not an issue to me, it's the principle of how they have gone about this. If I have to pay the full amount for the remainder of the year in one hit, then so be it. However, if they have not followed correct procedure for issuing a summons then I will go for them. If they have then I'll drop it as it was originally my fault. I've done a quick google and it does appear there is a procedure for issuing a court summons regarding final demands etc... but I can't find a definitive guide as to what has to be issued to the person being summoned.

With regards the orginal late payment letter I've sent them a complaint saying it was never received, was told I cannot have a copy, and re-iterated I want a copy. I will be investigating the complaints procedure tonight as I should be able to find it on there web site. For me I'm in a fortunate position to be able to pay the full amount for the rest of the year. Another time I might not be and the council treat me as if I've commited a crime.

You say you have paid. Is that the full amount outstanding from now until the end of March plus the £35 or just the missed first payment from April. By missing a payment even inadvertantly you have lost the right to pay in instalments so must pay the remaining amount for the year not just the missed payment or they will still go to court and ask for a liability order which will cost more.

scheming_gypsy

HappyMJ wrote: »

By missing a payment even inadvertantly you have lost the right to pay in instalments so must pay the remaining amount for the year not just the missed payment .

not always, if you phone up and explain they'll often reinstate the monthly payments for you at an increased rate to incorporate the missing payment and the court charges.

carpangler1

I've paid the missing payment (1 months installment) and a new bill for the total amount outstanding until the end of the council tax year, plus the £35 is going in the post today, that then has to be paid in full. I tried arguing my case that I never received the one original letter saying I had missed the payment, but they aren't interested. They haven't replied to my emails yet so that will be interesting to see how they respond.

CIS

They can't do it probably because a letter does not exist. Yes, they should have sent one. Go to the court and defend yourself. Show proof of all the payments from May to September to the council officer who will be at the court and tell them you can't pay it any quicker. They will probably get a liability order but by the sounds of it it's a genuine error so you should be able to continue to pay in instalments to the council. You need to talk to the council and negotiate. I don't know what the outcome will be.

The council do not have to demonstrate that the reminder was received,as long as they can show that the reminders were posted then this is accepted as evidence that Royal Mail will have delivered the reminder notice to you.

I would ignore a lot of the above posts regarding the magistrates - they get themselves in a twist because the council will meet with people before the court and try and discuss the situation before the magistrate hears the application for the Liability Order - apparently this means the order is not valid for some reason.

The actual Liability Order's are correctly granted by a Magistrate, in a court room - if a person has any doubt they can look at the court list for the day and see it scheduled in.

Flyboy152

CIS wrote: »

The council do not have to demonstrate that the reminder was received,as long as they can show that the reminders were posted then this is accepted as evidence that Royal Mail will have delivered the reminder notice to you.

It would be interesting to know just what proof of posting the council keeps.

CIS

It would be interesting to know just what proof of posting the council keeps.

There will be a computer print to demonstrate that the reminders were printed and a further one to confirm they were enveloped and then they will have a postal docket to show that X amounts of letters were posted. This should tally with the number printed.

I know people believe that they aren't posted but I've never once come across any problem with the documents actually being passed to Royal Mail, what happens then is in Royal Mail's hands.

Flyboy152

How is the number of letters verified?

HappyMJ

CIS wrote: »

The actual Liability Order's are correctly granted by a Magistrate, in a court room - if a person has any doubt they can look at the court list for the day and see it scheduled in.

I would like to see the liability order granted that has been signed, dated and stamped by the magistrate. The bailiff didn't have a copy, the council didn't have a copy, the court didn't even have the original. What does a liability order even look like? The council was able to print something from their own database but that database has never been to court.