Council Tax Rebanding SUCCESS stories

Cardew

I haven't waded through 202 pages of this thread, but surely there will be loads of properties that are in a Council tax band that is too low; perhaps more than those that are in too high a band.

As an example I know of an old 2  bed cottage with a large plot that was placed in Band A in 1990. About 15 years ago it was demolished and replaced with an 'all mod cons' 7 bed house with double garage etc. Despite full planning permission etc it remains in Band A and was sold a few years later for around £600k.

Do any councils upgrade their valuations for Council Tax banding?

lincroft1710

Cardew said:

I haven't waded through 202 pages of this thread, but surely there will be loads of properties that are in a Council tax band that is too low; perhaps more than those that are in too high a band.

As an example I know of an old 2  bed cottage with a large plot that was placed in Band A in 1990. About 15 years ago it was demolished and replaced with an 'all mod cons' 7 bed house with double garage etc. Despite full planning permission etc it remains in Band A and was sold a few years later for around £600k.

Do any councils upgrade their valuations for Council Tax banding?

Councils do not carry out banding for CT, that is done by the Valuation Office Agency (part of HMRC) in England and Wales and the Assessor in Scotland. Council Tax first came into being on 1 April 1993.


It is possible that the house to which you refer slipped through the net and the revenues section of the relevant council failed to pick it up from the planning application. It would be in the public interest if you informed (anonymously if you wish) the VOA/Assessor of the anomaly

Cardew

lincroft1710 said:

Cardew said:

I haven't waded through 202 pages of this thread, but surely there will be loads of properties that are in a Council tax band that is too low; perhaps more than those that are in too high a band.

As an example I know of an old 2  bed cottage with a large plot that was placed in Band A in 1990. About 15 years ago it was demolished and replaced with an 'all mod cons' 7 bed house with double garage etc. Despite full planning permission etc it remains in Band A and was sold a few years later for around £600k.

Do any councils upgrade their valuations for Council Tax banding?

Councils do not carry out banding for CT, that is done by the Valuation Office Agency (part of HMRC) in England and Wales and the Assessor in Scotland. Council Tax first came into being on 1 April 1993.


It is possible that the house to which you refer slipped through the net and the revenues section of the relevant council failed to pick it up from the planning application. It would be in the public interest if you informed (anonymously if you wish) the VOA/Assessor of the anomaly

Agreed, my mistake about 1993, albeit the CT band was fixed on the value of a property in April 1991. I am aware that the re-assessment is done by the VOA but used the term 'council' as they would be the beneficiary of increased funds from the raised CT charge and thus would have thought the council would be proactive in chasing the VOA.

Any extensions/improvements to a property willl, on sale of the property(CT band is normally only increased on change of ownership)  should have the CT band increased to the estimated value of the property in April 1991.

My point was that the value of properties can be increased dramatically without the need for planning permission(permitted developments) yet I have never heard of a property having an increased CT band, with, or without, planning permission. That the Council(VOA!) have the power to raise the CT Band is not in dispute, I simply asked if any councils(VOA) exercise that power.

It is much like the situation with water charges for some properties built prior to April 1990 and thus had a very low Rateable Value(RV). The water companies use that very low RV for unmetered properties and, again in my experience, do not check if the property has been greatly improved. The case I quoted above being an example, a 7 bed house built with full planning permission. with a peppercorn RV

lincroft1710

Cardew said:

lincroft1710 said:

Cardew said:

I haven't waded through 202 pages of this thread, but surely there will be loads of properties that are in a Council tax band that is too low; perhaps more than those that are in too high a band.

As an example I know of an old 2  bed cottage with a large plot that was placed in Band A in 1990. About 15 years ago it was demolished and replaced with an 'all mod cons' 7 bed house with double garage etc. Despite full planning permission etc it remains in Band A and was sold a few years later for around £600k.

Do any councils upgrade their valuations for Council Tax banding?

Councils do not carry out banding for CT, that is done by the Valuation Office Agency (part of HMRC) in England and Wales and the Assessor in Scotland. Council Tax first came into being on 1 April 1993.


It is possible that the house to which you refer slipped through the net and the revenues section of the relevant council failed to pick it up from the planning application. It would be in the public interest if you informed (anonymously if you wish) the VOA/Assessor of the anomaly

Agreed, my mistake about 1993, albeit the CT band was fixed on the value of a property in April 1991. I am aware that the re-assessment is done by the VOA but used the term 'council' as they would be the beneficiary of increased funds from the raised CT charge and thus would have thought the council would be proactive in chasing the VOA.

Any extensions/improvements to a property willl, on sale of the property(CT band is normally only increased on change of ownership)  should have the CT band increased to the estimated value of the property in April 1991.

My point was that the value of properties can be increased dramatically without the need for planning permission(permitted developments) yet I have never heard of a property having an increased CT band, with, or without, planning permission. That the Council(VOA!) have the power to raise the CT Band is not in dispute, I simply asked if any councils(VOA) exercise that power.

It is much like the situation with water charges for some properties built prior to April 1990 and thus had a very low Rateable Value(RV). The water companies use that very low RV for unmetered properties and, again in my experience, do not check if the property has been greatly improved. The case I quoted above being an example, a 7 bed house built with full planning permission. with a peppercorn RV

I'm ex VOA and am well aware of CT rules and procedures. I and former colleagues have increased CT bands on numerous occasions when it came to light a band was incorrect. The most memorable was when a CT payer moaned that they were in Band F, identical neighbours in Band D. Investigation proved Band F correct so neighbours' bands were increased to Band F.

Increased bands following alterations by previous owners and subsequent sales were continually occurring. But a band increase can only occur if an extended property is sold. The VOA can only increase bands if they are informed by the council that a band may need revising or from information otherwise received. As I previously commented if, for whatever reason, an extended property is not flagged up as such by either the council or VOA and thus slips through the net, it will will not be picked up as needing a band revision when next sold. I am very aware of many occasions when extensions have not been picked up at the relevant time.


Rateable Values cannot be increased for domestic property. The legislation which permitted RVs to change was repealed with effect from 1 April 1990. So whatever RV a house (or bungalow, flat or maisonette) had at 31 March 1990, it will remain for evermore.

Cardew

lincroft1710 said:

Cardew said:

lincroft1710 said:

Cardew said:

I haven't waded through 202 pages of this thread, but surely there will be loads of properties that are in a Council tax band that is too low; perhaps more than those that are in too high a band.

As an example I know of an old 2  bed cottage with a large plot that was placed in Band A in 1990. About 15 years ago it was demolished and replaced with an 'all mod cons' 7 bed house with double garage etc. Despite full planning permission etc it remains in Band A and was sold a few years later for around £600k.

Do any councils upgrade their valuations for Council Tax banding?

Councils do not carry out banding for CT, that is done by the Valuation Office Agency (part of HMRC) in England and Wales and the Assessor in Scotland. Council Tax first came into being on 1 April 1993.


It is possible that the house to which you refer slipped through the net and the revenues section of the relevant council failed to pick it up from the planning application. It would be in the public interest if you informed (anonymously if you wish) the VOA/Assessor of the anomaly

Agreed, my mistake about 1993, albeit the CT band was fixed on the value of a property in April 1991. I am aware that the re-assessment is done by the VOA but used the term 'council' as they would be the beneficiary of increased funds from the raised CT charge and thus would have thought the council would be proactive in chasing the VOA.

Any extensions/improvements to a property willl, on sale of the property(CT band is normally only increased on change of ownership)  should have the CT band increased to the estimated value of the property in April 1991.

My point was that the value of properties can be increased dramatically without the need for planning permission(permitted developments) yet I have never heard of a property having an increased CT band, with, or without, planning permission. That the Council(VOA!) have the power to raise the CT Band is not in dispute, I simply asked if any councils(VOA) exercise that power.

It is much like the situation with water charges for some properties built prior to April 1990 and thus had a very low Rateable Value(RV). The water companies use that very low RV for unmetered properties and, again in my experience, do not check if the property has been greatly improved. The case I quoted above being an example, a 7 bed house built with full planning permission. with a peppercorn RV

I'm ex VOA and am well aware of CT rules and procedures. I and former colleagues have increased CT bands on numerous occasions when it came to light a band was incorrect. The most memorable was when a CT payer moaned that they were in Band F, identical neighbours in Band D. Investigation proved Band F correct so neighbours' bands were increased to Band F.

Increased bands following alterations by previous owners and subsequent sales were continually occurring. But a band increase can only occur if an extended property is sold. The VOA can only increase bands if they are informed by the council that a band may need revising or from information otherwise received. As I previously commented if, for whatever reason, an extended property is not flagged up as such by either the council or VOA and thus slips through the net, it will will not be picked up as needing a band revision when next sold. I am very aware of many occasions when extensions have not been picked up at the relevant time.


Rateable Values cannot be increased for domestic property. The legislation which permitted RVs to change was repealed with effect from 1 April 1990. So whatever RV a house (or bungalow, flat or maisonette) had at 31 March 1990, it will remain for evermore.

It is obvious from your posts that you are aware of the rules. However a thread can be read by many people; if I intended my post to be only read by yourself, I would have sent you a private message.

I am fully aware of the position on Rateable Value; it has been covered hundreds of times in Which/MSE and other media. I was making the point that water companies have the power to compulsorily fit a water meter in many cases; but they don't bother - rather like the VOA( in my experience!) don't bother for extensions/improvements.

So we both seem to agree that the system ain't working efficiently!!

lincroft1710

Cardew said:

lincroft1710 said:

Cardew said:

lincroft1710 said:

Cardew said:

I haven't waded through 202 pages of this thread, but surely there will be loads of properties that are in a Council tax band that is too low; perhaps more than those that are in too high a band.

As an example I know of an old 2  bed cottage with a large plot that was placed in Band A in 1990. About 15 years ago it was demolished and replaced with an 'all mod cons' 7 bed house with double garage etc. Despite full planning permission etc it remains in Band A and was sold a few years later for around £600k.

Do any councils upgrade their valuations for Council Tax banding?

Councils do not carry out banding for CT, that is done by the Valuation Office Agency (part of HMRC) in England and Wales and the Assessor in Scotland. Council Tax first came into being on 1 April 1993.


It is possible that the house to which you refer slipped through the net and the revenues section of the relevant council failed to pick it up from the planning application. It would be in the public interest if you informed (anonymously if you wish) the VOA/Assessor of the anomaly

Agreed, my mistake about 1993, albeit the CT band was fixed on the value of a property in April 1991. I am aware that the re-assessment is done by the VOA but used the term 'council' as they would be the beneficiary of increased funds from the raised CT charge and thus would have thought the council would be proactive in chasing the VOA.

Any extensions/improvements to a property willl, on sale of the property(CT band is normally only increased on change of ownership)  should have the CT band increased to the estimated value of the property in April 1991.

My point was that the value of properties can be increased dramatically without the need for planning permission(permitted developments) yet I have never heard of a property having an increased CT band, with, or without, planning permission. That the Council(VOA!) have the power to raise the CT Band is not in dispute, I simply asked if any councils(VOA) exercise that power.

It is much like the situation with water charges for some properties built prior to April 1990 and thus had a very low Rateable Value(RV). The water companies use that very low RV for unmetered properties and, again in my experience, do not check if the property has been greatly improved. The case I quoted above being an example, a 7 bed house built with full planning permission. with a peppercorn RV

I'm ex VOA and am well aware of CT rules and procedures. I and former colleagues have increased CT bands on numerous occasions when it came to light a band was incorrect. The most memorable was when a CT payer moaned that they were in Band F, identical neighbours in Band D. Investigation proved Band F correct so neighbours' bands were increased to Band F.

Increased bands following alterations by previous owners and subsequent sales were continually occurring. But a band increase can only occur if an extended property is sold. The VOA can only increase bands if they are informed by the council that a band may need revising or from information otherwise received. As I previously commented if, for whatever reason, an extended property is not flagged up as such by either the council or VOA and thus slips through the net, it will will not be picked up as needing a band revision when next sold. I am very aware of many occasions when extensions have not been picked up at the relevant time.


Rateable Values cannot be increased for domestic property. The legislation which permitted RVs to change was repealed with effect from 1 April 1990. So whatever RV a house (or bungalow, flat or maisonette) had at 31 March 1990, it will remain for evermore.

It is obvious from your posts that you are aware of the rules. However a thread can be read by many people; if I intended my post to be only read by yourself, I would have sent you a private message.

I am fully aware of the position on Rateable Value; it has been covered hundreds of times in Which/MSE and other media. I was making the point that water companies have the power to compulsorily fit a water meter in many cases; but they don't bother - rather like the VOA( in my experience!) don't bother for extensions/improvements.

So we both seem to agree that the system ain't working efficiently!!

No I do not agree. The system works, but like most things not 100%. To repeat what I said the VOA can only act when it is aware there is a need to act and further it will act when it is aware and I have plenty of experience of this. A former senior colleague once said that the VOA's duty is to maintain the Valuation List not police it.

With regard to water meters, Anglian Water definitely fitted water meters in many areas and encouraged customers to use them for billing purposes

Woamwedo

lincroft1710 said:

Graham_Reed said:

Dear All, 

I have recently had a victory against the VOA and had my own council tax band reduced, however, there are 35 other identical properties in this development, and I was shocked to find that their respective Council Tax Banding would not be reduced. I have since been informed that each individual property will have to make the claim using my victory document, which would be a huge amount of individual effort. My question is has anyone has any success in bringing a group valuation reduction and if so how did you approach it. 

Kind Regards

Graham Reed  

Unless your band was reduced by the Valuation Tribunal, your neighbours cannot make proposals but can only ask for a band review. I am not certain that a "group valuation reduction" is possible if a proposal can be made and it shouldn't take many minutes to make a proposal.


With a band review, it just needs to be along the lines of

"We the undersigned request that our respective CT bands are reduced in line with that of (insert the address of the property that the reduction)"

Then have a list of all addresses with "(name of occupier) Occupier (signature of occupier) against each entry.


Usually the VOA  would initiate band reductions of identical house types, so I am wondering if the VOA are of the opinion that some or all of the other houses do not warrant a reduction.

The VOA must have lost their way since you left then. They do not initiate band reductions of identical house types. My previous address/road had around 6 houses dropped from D to C. The remaining 44 are all still on D. Where I moved to there are several examples of newly built identical houses being in different bands. To underline the inconsistent application, they banded a pair of semis differently. One was C, the other E. the adjacent detached was band C. On discovering the mistake, they have corrected the detached to E yet still left the incorrect semi at E. Every other semi on the development is C. Who is actually responsible for overseeing this nonsense?

lincroft1710

Woamwedo said:

lincroft1710 said:

Graham_Reed said:

Dear All, 

I have recently had a victory against the VOA and had my own council tax band reduced, however, there are 35 other identical properties in this development, and I was shocked to find that their respective Council Tax Banding would not be reduced. I have since been informed that each individual property will have to make the claim using my victory document, which would be a huge amount of individual effort. My question is has anyone has any success in bringing a group valuation reduction and if so how did you approach it. 

Kind Regards

Graham Reed  

Unless your band was reduced by the Valuation Tribunal, your neighbours cannot make proposals but can only ask for a band review. I am not certain that a "group valuation reduction" is possible if a proposal can be made and it shouldn't take many minutes to make a proposal.


With a band review, it just needs to be along the lines of

"We the undersigned request that our respective CT bands are reduced in line with that of (insert the address of the property that the reduction)"

Then have a list of all addresses with "(name of occupier) Occupier (signature of occupier) against each entry.


Usually the VOA  would initiate band reductions of identical house types, so I am wondering if the VOA are of the opinion that some or all of the other houses do not warrant a reduction.

The VOA must have lost their way since you left then. They do not initiate band reductions of identical house types. My previous address/road had around 6 houses dropped from D to C. The remaining 44 are all still on D. Where I moved to there are several examples of newly built identical houses being in different bands. To underline the inconsistent application, they banded a pair of semis differently. One was C, the other E. the adjacent detached was band C. On discovering the mistake, they have corrected the detached to E yet still left the incorrect semi at E. Every other semi on the development is C. Who is actually responsible for overseeing this nonsense?

Having been out of the VOA for 15 yrs I do not know if there is anyone in practice who monitors CT bands above the level of the CT Appeals caseworker(s) and different offices may or may not have someone in place. In theory the responsibility for CT banding lies with the Listing Officer, but in my day they were generally a "hands off" person, and the responsibility was devolved down to the CT Appeals caseworker(s). 

Because of the huge number of dwellings the caseworker has responsibility for (I was responsible for over 350,000 dwellings) unless the caseworker (or the CT Banding caseworker) carefully monitors an estate, the scenario you describe can very easily happen.

I would suggest you either inform the occupier of the dwelling concerned or the VOA of the anomaly

p00hsticks

Cardew said:

lincroft1710 said:

Cardew said:

I haven't waded through 202 pages of this thread, but surely there will be loads of properties that are in a Council tax band that is too low; perhaps more than those that are in too high a band.

As an example I know of an old 2  bed cottage with a large plot that was placed in Band A in 1990. About 15 years ago it was demolished and replaced with an 'all mod cons' 7 bed house with double garage etc. Despite full planning permission etc it remains in Band A and was sold a few years later for around £600k.

Do any councils upgrade their valuations for Council Tax banding?

Councils do not carry out banding for CT, that is done by the Valuation Office Agency (part of HMRC) in England and Wales and the Assessor in Scotland. Council Tax first came into being on 1 April 1993.


It is possible that the house to which you refer slipped through the net and the revenues section of the relevant council failed to pick it up from the planning application. It would be in the public interest if you informed (anonymously if you wish) the VOA/Assessor of the anomaly

I am aware that the re-assessment is done by the VOA but used the term 'council' as they would be the beneficiary of increased funds from the raised CT charge and thus would have thought the council would be proactive in chasing the VOA.

I'm not at all sure that the council would actually benefit from an increase in band of an individual property.

My understanding of the way it works is that the council decides the total amount of it's budget that it needs to fund from council tax (limited by government restrictions on how much it can increase council tax by). That budget is then divided up across all the properties in the area subject to council tax according to the number and distribution in each band (Band D is taken as the baseline and the bands above and below are calculated as a proportion of it). 

So if an individual property is in band A when it should be in Band D, it would onyl pay 6/9ths of the council tax it should be, and every other property would be paying an (extremely tiny) fraction more. 

Analyst

We have succeeded in reducing our council tax band, but the council has only paid back 12 of the 17 years over payment. so far. There has been no explanation for the random period they have chosen to refund.