Woolwich MPP

ami66

I have found documents for a joint MPP with critical illness cover that was sold to us by Woolwich in June 1999. Neither of us remembers why we have it as we haven’t had a mortgage with the Woolwich!

Schedule dated June 1999 states it’s a Joint Life Mortgage Protection Assurance, the front of the booklet the schedule it’s glued to states ‘with critical illness cover’ and the terms & conditions in the back of the booklet cover critical illness. Also on the special provisions part of the schedule it states ‘the policy shall not at any time acquire any surrender or paid up value’.

We then received a letter in March 2001 stating ‘that following a recent administrative review the policy schedule which sets out the terms of cover is inaccurate. The schedule states that critical illness cover is included with this policy. You will note from your original application and acceptance letter that the cover does not included critical illness cover ‘. A new schedule is included with the letter but the only different to the first is in that doesn’t have the statement ‘the policy shall not at any time acquire any surrender or paid up value’.

Have the original acceptance letter and there is no mention of Critical Illness at all.

Which brings me to the questions!

1st - Would it be a good idea to apply for the agreement or do a SAR request for this to find out why we took out the insurance? Can we claim miss selling if we don’t know why we have it; we had another policy with the Prudential which would have covered our outstanding mortgage at the time?

2nd – Woolwich have already made one error, as admitted to in writing to us. Could I contact them any ask what the surrender value currently is? After all there is nothing on the new schedule to state there is not a surrender value!

di3004

Hi there

Bumping this up for you so that you receive the correct advice on this, you can request for a SAR if you want to, but they may only go back to the last 6 years, although some banks still hold data going back to prior to that.

If you decide to do this, there is a template letter below, good luck and hopefully someone will be along soon.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1475553

dunstonh

1st - Would it be a good idea to apply for the agreement or do a SAR request for this to find out why we took out the insurance?

There is no agreement with insurances. There will be an application form. In 1999 that means a range of medical questions asked, your GP details and your signatures.

Can we claim miss selling if we don’t know why we have it;

That is not a reason for complaint.

2nd – Woolwich have already made one error, as admitted to in writing to us. Could I contact them any ask what the surrender value currently is? After all there is nothing on the new schedule to state there is not a surrender value!

It wont have a surrender value. Hardly any of these plans do. Only some of the lesser quality plans do.

Being forgetful is not grounds for complaint. Being sold a plan where you had no financial need is a mis-sale. So, on the one hand, they are going to have an application signed by you giving personal details (and probably a factfind, needs analysis and report if their recording keeping is what it should be) which should blow your "forgetful" complaint out of the water. However, on the other you say you didnt have a mortgage. So, that suggests the policy should not have been recommended. So, you may have a better approach on that front.

So, as long as the pru policy was taken out before the Woolwich one and that the woolwich policy is a decreasing term assurance and not a level term assurance, you should look at that as a potential complaint reason.

ami66

dunstonh wrote: »

Being forgetful is not grounds for complaint. Being sold a plan where you had no financial need is a mis-sale. So, on the one hand, they are going to have an application signed by you giving personal details (and probably a factfind, needs analysis and report if their recording keeping is what it should be) which should blow your "forgetful" complaint out of the water. However, on the other you say you didnt have a mortgage. So, that suggests the policy should not have been recommended. So, you may have a better approach on that front.

So, as long as the pru policy was taken out before the Woolwich one and that the woolwich policy is a decreasing term assurance and not a level term assurance, you should look at that as a potential complaint reason.

I realise forgetfulness would not be grounds for a complaint, what I was more concerned about is that we couldn't complain for other reasons because we can't remember why we have the policy :huh:

I'm still checking all our old paper work. We certainly had the Pru policy in 1990 when we took out our first mortgage with the Halifax. I can't find the policy document though, only confirmation letters. I believe we cashed it in when we changed to a repayment mortgage. I'm trying to trace when we did that to see if it ties in with this Woolwich insurance which is a decreasing value start at about what our Halifax mortgage would have been about then.

I'm also puzzled why Woolwich wrote to us after 2 years to say Critical Illness cover was not included, but until I get some documents from Woolwich I won't be able to find out if we had requested that to be part of the insurance.

The problem seems that once you find one mistake you distrust everything the bank sold you!

Will a request for the application form be the same as asking for the agreement and send a £1 with request?

dunstonh

I'm still checking all our old paper work. We certainly had the Pru policy in 1990 when we took out our first mortgage with the Halifax. I can't find the policy document though, only confirmation letters. I believe we cashed it in when we changed to a repayment mortgage. I'm trying to trace when we did that to see if it ties in with this Woolwich insurance which is a decreasing value start at about what our Halifax mortgage would have been about then.

Most people when they move house on subsequent occassions borrow more or change the term. So, its quite normal for another life policy to be set up to cover the difference or to replace the first one which is no longer adequate (e.g. first one set to £50k but you go on to borrow another 25k. So, it can be replaced with a new one for £75k in total or just the 25k difference)

I'm also puzzled why Woolwich wrote to us after 2 years to say Critical Illness cover was not included, but until I get some documents from Woolwich I won't be able to find out if we had requested that to be part of the insurance.

They do run audits periodically and probably found that they sent the wrong docs out to a selection of people.

The problem seems that once you find one mistake you distrust everything the bank sold you!

The banks operate sales forces. You shouldnt seek advice from them at all. You are going through a sales process with them. Not an advice process.

Will a request for the application form be the same as asking for the agreement and send a £1 with request?

The £1 request method doesnt apply to insurance. That is just to credit in force that is regulated under the consumer credit act. You need to use the £10 subject access request. However, you dont need to do that. You can just ask them why it was recommended and they should supply a copy of their report or needs analysis. A £10 SAR will make sure you get everything the have but asking them is cheaper initially. Nothing stops you going back with an SAR afterwards.

magpiecottage

ami66 wrote: »

Would it be a good idea to apply for the agreement or do a SAR request for this to find out why we took out the insurance? Can we claim miss selling if we don’t know why we have it; we had another policy with the Prudential which would have covered our outstanding mortgage at the time?

There is no guarantee it will show anything. In 1999 there was no requirement for a fact find to sell a term assurance. Provided there was no misrepresentation it is unlikely there would be a case.

Woolwich have already made one error, as admitted to in writing to us. Could I contact them any ask what the surrender value currently is? After all there is nothing on the new schedule to state there is not a surrender value!

There is also nothing in it to say you are exempt from speeding fines. That is because it does not exempt you from speeding fines - and it does not acquire a surrender value.

In theory, you could have complained when the schedule was given to you but would have had to do so within three years of becoming aware that you had cause for complaint (which would have run out in 2004) or, if later, within six years of the events giving rise to the complaint (which expired in 2005).

So it ought to be possible to timebar the complaint.

ami66

Thanks for all your comments.

I'm not going to pursue any complaint about this policy as there simply doesn't seem any reason to do so but I will take some advice as to whether or not to cancel this policy.