Work a day for free?

Danorak

Hi people.

I've, or, we've got a little situation brewing at work. I'll put you in the picture.

It's a family furniture business. I work on the delivery van, the whole company inc. me has 2 managers, and 4 members of staff. Nice small figures there. Myself and 2 others work Mon-Fri and do deliveries and/or carpet fitting, as this is what we were employed for. We recently had a 5th, but she left for pastures new. Now, of us 4, only 1 works on a Saturday as it's their job to work in the shop. The 5th who left also worked in the shop. We have two shops, so they both worked in one shop one Saturday and worked in the other shop the next etc. Whichever shop they weren't in, the management worked the other.

Now, things have gone a bit quiet, so the company isn't replacing the 5th member of staff. Fair enough. Thing is, they're now asking us to split the Saturdays between the three of us. We aren't happy about it, as none of us are shop trained, don't really know anything about the stock etc etc, we just deliver furniture. But, we understand things are tight, so know that we'll have to work one in three Saturdays.

What has really annoyed us is this: our working day is 8.45 until 5.20. Now, as it's been quiet, (and this has been going on for about a year), the boss at the shop in which we are based has been closing the doors and going home at 5pm most days, himself included. He has a busy home life, and often has customers to see on the way home, so as it's quiet in the shop, we all get sent home too.

Now, this Saturday thing. Myself and the other 2 manual workers have been told we're gonna' have to split the Saturdays. Again, fair enough. However, we're being told we've got to do it for FREE because we've been being let off at 5pm rather than 5.20pm. Now, I don't think this is right. They won't give us a day off the following week because 'we owe them', so essentially we're working 6 days, 1 of which will be free to make that 20 minutes back. Now, when we were being sent home at 5pm, we were never told that these 20 minutes would be saved for a time when they needed us to work, we were just sent home. We were still paid our normal salary, we didn't ask to be paid, nor did we ask to leave early. Ultimately, we don't always get away at 5pm: if we're needed to stay until 5.20, we do, and Thursdays the shop closes at 5pm anyway, so i'd say at the most, we get away at 5pm 3 days.

Also, what happens now when it comes to Holidays? We've all booked our leave entitlement based on the fact we only work Mon-Fri. So what happens if it's somebodies Saturday to work and they aren't in? Can they make us come in? Does it mean that one of the others has to cover, which means that person would be working 12 in 14 day's. I've got things planned for several weekends that i've not booked off because Saturdays were never in my working week, nor do I have any holiday left as I've booked stuff to co-incide with my partners holidays.

Unfortunately, we have no contracts: no-one in the 99 years it's been open has ever had one, so this is where the third problem lies. We're not arguing working the Saturday, but surely they can't suddenly demand this time back without us being informed about this when it first started happening?

I just thought i'd post it up here to see what peoples thoughts are on the situation as it seems it's very unfair: more-so as we're the only 3 staff members in the company who are gong to be working 6 days to make sure everything is covered!

Dan

Hammyman

Danorak wrote: »

Now, this Saturday thing. Myself and the other 2 manual workers have been told we're gonna' have to split the Saturdays. Again, fair enough. However, we're being told we've got to do it for FREE because we've been being let off at 5pm rather than 5.20pm.

So you get paid your normal salary for a 8.45 - 5.20pm workday, get sent home 20 minutes early ON PAY totalling in 3 weeks 300 minutes or 6hrs and you're complaining because you are being asked to work one Saturday in three for the time you've already been paid for? How are you doing it for free?

Also you are on salary, not hourly wage, so they can alter hours as required and recoup them as and when and also make you work additional hours without extra money but they aren't doing that even though they could.

I'd sack the entire ungrateful lot of you. You talk about them being unfair, I think you are.

Hammyman

Googlewhacker wrote: »

I would expect to be paid for the saturday you are working.

Firstly, they already are being.

Secondly, they are on salary so tough luck. With salaried rather than hourly pay sometimes you win, sometimes you lose but it balances itself out over a year.

paddedjohn

Even if they can make you work the saturday for free, (and i dont think they can unless it was made clear before they started letting you go early that you would have to make the time up at a later date) then you only owe them about 6/7 saturdays based on you saying you closed early 3 times a week so the issue of pay will have to come up after 18/20 weeks.

globalds

I would ask about your contract.

seems without that, neither side really knows where they stand.

Danorak

Okay Hammyman. So you're saying that because we get let off 20 mins early, they can basically make us do it as they've already paid us? Fine. So if that was their intention, then why did they not at least mention this before they started shutting up shop early? How about then, I tot up all the tea breaks I've not had during the day because we've been to busy because they've put too many deliveries in? Or the dinner breaks we've missed out because they've put too many deliveries in? Or when we've missed dinners altogether because we've had to unload a lorry? I don't ask or get any extra allowance for those-and for sure, I know that would equate to more than what they're asking us to give over the 4 years I've been there. So how dare you call me ungrateful: you know nothing of me or the work I've done-just another keyboard warrior spouting off. If you're not going to contribute constructively or without making it personal then I KINDLY ask you not to post on this thread again. I don't care what your post count is, how long you've been here or anything: that was just downright rude. Plus, we're all on an hourly rate-but we don't push to be paid for extra hours because we do it to help out; but this is just taking the mick.

Thanks for the constructive feedback from the remainder, much appreciated.

mountainofdebt

But if you're paid hourly, I assume that you're being paid for the hours between 8.45 am - 5.20pm? So if you're sent home at 5.00pm then effectively you've been overpaid by 20 mins each working day for a year? (tbh if you have worked through your dinner / tea break then that could be argued that was a choice you made and that wasn't down to the company)

I would imagine that if you were down to work a saturday but needed it off then the company would allow you to swop with another member of the team.

Hammyman

Danorak wrote: »

Okay Hammyman. So you're saying that because we get let off 20 mins early, they can basically make us do it as they've already paid us? Fine. So if that was their intention, then why did they not at least mention this before they started shutting up shop early? How about then, I tot up all the tea breaks I've not had during the day because we've been to busy because they've put too many deliveries in? Or the dinner breaks we've missed out because they've put too many deliveries in? Or when we've missed dinners altogether because we've had to unload a lorry?

Your fault for not taking your legally entitled breaks and BTW you are only legally entitled to one 20 minute break. I used to be a lorry driver. When I first started I was stupid and would tip and load on break so worked straight through up to 15hrs a day. Eventually I grew a brain and took my breaks and if it meant stuff didn't get delivered because they'd given me too much work, it didn't get delivered. The only reason you end up with too many deliveries is because you allow them to give you them.

Plus, we're all on an hourly rate-but we don't push to be paid for extra hours because we do it to help out; but this is just taking the mick.

You were the one who said, and I quote:

We were still paid our normal salary

I don't have a crystal ball.

I think that the best bet is that you demand from your employer that you are paid for the hours you work. That does of course have the downside that you'll get less money two out of three weeks.

Danorak

Okay, my error there-salary should have been replaced with wage. So, you know as a lorry driver what it's like to have a job to get done. There have been many occasions where we have had no choice but to work through breaks. Unfortunately for me, I work with the bosses son so if his Dad puts the stuff down to do, then it gets regardless.

With regards to unloading lorries, our warehouse is unmanned so if something comes in, we have to drop whatever we're doing and unload it pretty much (unless we're miles away). As there are only three of us, one is a carpet fitter and me and the other guy are delivery drivers, if something needs to be unloaded then we have to go do it. It has been annoying, but everything we've ever been asked to do we've done it-no question. I've only ever claimed for 2 hours extra since ive been there: it's a small company so you just help out. So all the breaks we have missed, not through any fault of our own, we just do: never asked for anything in return. So you could say, that letting us go early is making up for those breaks. Fine, I'm happy with that: so why do we have to work Sat for free?

I think this isn't going to get anywhere: I just wanted a bit of advice really, to see if any others had experienced similar etc, but it's not. Thanks for the contributions, we'll just have to settle this at work.

Dan

Savvy_Sue

I always think that the best way of sorting this kind of thing is to go in as a group with suggestions, having thought about the immediately obvious problems, and also the not yet arisen problems.

Obviously, you've not got all the Saturdays free which might be needed. And your colleagues may be in a similar situation. So a discussion about how to resolve that would be good. If you already have a solution to offer, it helps.

Also what happens when one of you is sick at the last minute, and the other two aren't available? If there's enough 'management' around to cover for that, is it reasonable to expect them to do more on a regular basis, rather than assuming your lives can be adjusted to enable you to work a 6 day week every 3 weeks?

A petulant "it's not fair" isn't the answer, but you could all calmly point out that the three of you seem to be getting a raw deal, and while it might be the answer in the short term is it sustainable in the medium to long term? It's possible they'll see that this just isn't going to work, and get a Saturday person in!

ceridwen

Dont forget the National Minimum Wage level.

I dont know what hourly rate you are being paid - but if that rate had to be split over more hours (ie 5.33 days per week - rather than 5 days) then it would represent a lower hourly rate being paid. With that - would the wage be less than NMW level?

It would certainly be a paycut for you to do more hours for the same money - so do work out just how much of a paycut he is proposing to try and impose on you.