Audi A3 TDi losing water

CRH71

secret_tramp wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a sniff test?

And what does a sniff test establish?

A sniff test will confirm or deny the presence of combustion fumes in the coolant - another indication of potential Head Gasket issues.

Again, your local friendly independent garage will be able to carry out this test for relatively little cost - the result of this test, combined with the result of the pressurisation test I mentioned last night will give you a definitive answer as to where the water's going.

Another thought that just struck me - as the coolant level's dropped low enough to trigger the light (I wouldn't mind betting that the reservoir was empty on the first occasion) is it possible some air has got in and you now have an air-lock? This will cause the symptoms you have but without leaving any visible signs of a leak.

I would suggest that you may not have a HG problem - the clearance at TDC on that engine is very, very small indeed and I would have thought that even a small leak into a cylinder would very quickly "hydraulically lock" the engine, especially if it was left standing for a day or so. Also you don't mention any signs of overheating, or "bubbling" sounds from the heater, nor do you mention that the radiator hoses appear absolutely rock-hard whilst the engine's running. All of those are indications that combustion pressure is getting into the cooling system - again, the "sniff test" will confirm or deny this fact.

I do, however, echo another posters thoughts of "get it checked, sooner rather than later" - your engine is at serious risk with a leak, whether large or small. Leaks never improve of their own accord - they have a nasty habit of suddenly becoming much worse (normally when under pressure/load on the motorway or local fast 'A' road) and your engine would be expensively ruined if it did overheat.

Keep a very careful eye on the temperature gauge - the instant it goes up ANY higher than "Normal" kill the engine on the spot and get recovered back to your local garage without running the engine any more to minimise the risk of damage being caused.

Are you topping up with the correct coolant/water mix when you're topping up this reservoir? Not doing so is storing up problems for the future on an all-alloy engine such as this - the internal waterways will corrode if plain water is used for topping-up on a regular basis.

secret_tramp

The car is now losing water much more rapidly and I have noticed a lot of steam coming from the exhaust. The oil on the dipstick looks ok, but the tell tale signs of sludge are present on the filler cap. It therefore seems likely that we have a blown head gasket or a damaged cylinder head.

I have called a few local garages to try and get an idea of likely costs - most of whom are a bit too vague. One garage ruled themselves out and recommended me to an `engine specialist`.

This specialist says that this engine is noted for head failure and that it is 99% likely that the head will need replacing.

A new head supplied by him would be an additional £695 + VAT.

I could obtain either a reconditioned or one from a salvage yard for about £250 with a 6 month warranty but he is unwilling to fit anything other than what he would obtain.

His reasoning is that he could only `cold test` the part - in the same way he would test the head from my own car.

I am slightly dubious that a) he has said that it is almost certain that I need a new head without even testing it - it might need skimming for example which would be an extra, say, £100 and b) his reluctance to entertain a reconditioned part. It leads me to suspect that a £900 + VAT job will almost definitely become an almost £2000 job the moment I hand the car over.

Is his reasoning sound or am I right in being a bit dubious about that garage?

CRH71

My personal thoughts are that he's trying it on.

IF the engine concerned has a reputation for head failure (1.9TDI VW engine) it would be all over the internet forums, for a start - this is pretty-much the same engine as used in any other 1.9 VW Group product (Skoda, VW, Audi) and there would be taxi-drivers in their droves abandoning the "old faithful" Skoda Octavia and going to a different manufacturer. The last time I looked on a local taxi-rank and outside some of the local offices this was most definitely not the case.

Agreed, IF THE ENGINE OVERHEATS then there really is a serious risk of you damaging the head - same with any all-alloy engine. However, at this stage you don't mention anything about overheating - merely water loss and (now) apparent signs of early HG failure.

To me, the garage is pushing their luck and suggesting the "textbook" way of resolving the issue. Of course, if we lived in an ideal world, where money was in unlimited supply then of course we would replace ANY alloy head that had been subjected to overheating as a belt-and-braces measure. We don't, however, live in this ideal world and I would view any garage that is prepared to say such a thing without even seeing the car as one to avoid.

Skimming a head, by the way, is somewhere between £25 and £40 - nowhere near £100. If the head needs crack or pressure testing then this is around another £65 - however, crack/pressure testing would not be required unless the head was stripped off and there were no signs of HG failure itself therefore putting suspicion onto the head itself (or, worse, the block but that's rare). Based on what you have said thus far, I an suspecting a very minor breach from one of the cylinders into the water jacket and thus this is very early days - get it resolved now and you'll save the expense of another head - either new or S/H. "I can only cold test any other head but the one I supply" - tosh!

I don't know which area of the country you are - if you were in Kent, I could recommend a very good engine specialist in the Medway Towns whose opinion I have learned to trust over many years of dealing with them - they saved my friend and I an awful lot of work and expense when we thought his Volvo had suffered HG failure recently - it turned out that the head was actually perfect, as was the HG and the issue was caused by a cracked liner. That however, is another story.

£900 + VAT seems very high for HG failure, even on that engine. I would suggest you need to find another, independent, garage and physically take the car to them and ask their advice - as previously advised. For HG failure, an "engine specialist" would definitely not be required - this is the type of task that can be undertaken by a competent mechanic. Don't get me wrong, a HG on a modern car isn't "simple" but it's certainly not a "specialist" job on the 1.9TDI engine. My personal "gut feel" suggests around £6-650 + VAT for this job, including the ubiquitous coolant flush/change and new oil and all filters - that's at professional labour rates.

The garages/"specialists" you have spoken to so far seem to all be ruling themselves out by giving you ridiculous quotes - to me, none of them want the job.

BTW - if it's now using water far more rapidly than it was a few days ago, then I can only re-iterate my, and other poster's, previous advice - PLEASE STOP USING IT IMMEDIATELY. If the water loss amount has increased dramatically in just a few days, you are heading for very, very expensive territory if you don't heed the advice to stop using it - the next stage will be (and it won't be long, either) that the entire cooling system empties itself through the engine whilst you're driving down the road - trust me, that amount of coolant will disappear pretty quickly and then the engine WILL definitely overheat and you WILL bow the head, or maybe ruin the block. At that point, you're in "replacement engine" territory, which is where things will get mightily expensive at professional labour rates.

secret_tramp

Many thanks for your comprehensive reply.

Whilst he seemed knowledgeable I had the feeling as soon as I told him I was an Audi owner and where I live in London that he saw pound signs - and lots of them. The figures you mention seem much more in line with my own estimations.

Someone has suggested to me on an Audi forum that the problem is more likely to be the EGR cooler - apparently these cars had an issue with these and many were recalled - Audi certainly were aware that there were issues in this area. The engine is a 2.0 - don't know if that makes any difference.

The original mechanic came to the same conclusion and feels that the symptoms would be far worse if it were the head gasket or head.

Nonetheless I agree that some proper diagnosis should take place as a matter of urgency and the car isn't going anywhere apart from to a garage. Trouble is many garages I have spoken to don't seem to know where to start. For example one of them told me that this car doesn't have an EGR cooler. :eek: Another quoted £95 + VAT to do a couple of unspecified checks.

Somebody mentioned that Iversons can do diagnostics and they are pretty reasonable so I should be seeing them tomorrow.

I will let you know how I get on. Once again many thanks for your help and advice. At least with information available online many of us who are not mechanically minded can get a good idea of the issues and avoid getting stung by the unscrupulous and incompetent. :T

secret_tramp

Just a quick update.

I found a competent garage finally, to run some checks.

They ruled out either a blown head gasket or a damaged cylinder head as the car would not run as it was if it were that. Probably wouldn't start at all, it was losing so much water.

So they reckoned it had to be the EGR cooler. To tell for sure they would have to spend quite some time getting the part out to inspect it, so I bought the part anyway. The tell tale signs of moisture inside it were there so it was replaced.

Since then no loss of coolant or any other problems - touch wood.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

adi_clarke85

We have an 2004 A3 TDI and had the same problem, spent 1000's on the problem and it was finally sorted last year. We couldn't find the leak anywhere. I can't remember what the solution was, but will try to find out.

It also seemed to coincide with power problems, when my partner drove it would suddenly lose power whilst on NSL dual carriageways etc and this hasn't happened since we sorted the problem.

Strider590

So many huge posts in this thread, I really CBA to read it all.

I just wanted to point out to OP that water pumps are more likely to leak when the engine is not running and once the engine has cooled down (and the seals settle).
So for all you know, it could be dumping the coolant out into the roadside drain at 3am in the morning.