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Can I appeal my Council Tax Band if Everyone is Paying the in the Same Tax Band ?

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  • Leodogger
    Leodogger Posts: 1,328 Forumite
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    I'm ex VOA and dealt with CT appeals for the last 12 years of my working life.

    Band C covers properties valued in excess of £52K but no more than £68K as at 1 April 1991. So if the bungalow would have sold for £52,000 at that date - Band B, but (for example) £52,500 and it's a Band C.

    If the buying market is restricted, this will usually depress the price.

    I've dealt with many HAs and HA properties. Usually, unless it's a "private" HA properties are built for rent. Were these bungalows available only to local people and were they part buy/part rent at any time.

    No they were built by another organisation, can't remember which one but the Accord Housing Association bought the development from them and sold only to over 60's, as far as I am aware they have always been sold on a 95% ownership basis. On paper the HA owns the other 5% but I have been told by the current owners that when you sell the seller gets 100% of the money paid but the 5% is always owned on paper by the HA to prevent anyone under 60 buying one of the bungalows. There is a maintenance payment to be made to the HA for 24 hour support line and care of communal areas, plus maintenance of the exterior of the bungalows.
  • dzug1
    dzug1 Posts: 13,535 Forumite
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    JWhite wrote: »
    How can anyone argue with the actual price paid? . :)

    Very easily if that price has been artificially lowered - or raised.
  • Leodogger
    Leodogger Posts: 1,328 Forumite
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    dzug1 wrote: »
    Very easily if that price has been artificially lowered - or raised.

    And how could the council prove that ? ;)
  • Leodogger
    Leodogger Posts: 1,328 Forumite
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    I have just had the original sale price confirmed to me by the Accord Housing Association when they were first offered for sale in 1993 to the public and the price was £47,950 which puts them in Band B instead of C. Hopefully when we move in I can persuade the other residents on the development to appeal their tax bands too and get them all reduced to Band B instead of C ! :T If it works, I will become a hero ! :rotfl:
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 18,905 Forumite
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    JWhite wrote: »
    I have just had the original sale price confirmed to me by the Accord Housing Association when they were first offered for sale in 1993 to the public and the price was £47,950 which puts them in Band B instead of C. Hopefully when we move in I can persuade the other residents on the development to appeal their tax bands too and get them all reduced to Band B instead of C ! :T If it works, I will become a hero ! :rotfl:

    That is the 1993 price, you will have to add on at least 10% to get to 1991 price and if the sale price reflects only a 95% share then you'll have to add on another 5% (maybe more*), which I am afraid puts it into Band C.

    *When a property is owned by more than one entity, the value of the whole property may well be reduced because of this. Having to share ownership puts people off. Also although on paper the HA own only 5%, should their share be available to purchase, its value may well be worth more than 5% of the whole property value, because of the opportunity for the other owner to own 100% of the property.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 18,905 Forumite
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    edited 26 August 2011 at 4:12PM
    JWhite wrote: »
    And how could the council prove that ? ;)

    It's not the council who will deal with the CT appeal, it will be the Valuation Office Agency and the sale price as I have posted above will have to be adjusted to find the 1 Apr 1991 open market value of the whole property.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • Leodogger
    Leodogger Posts: 1,328 Forumite
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    That is the 1993 price, you will have to add on at least 10% to get to 1991 price and if the sale price reflects only a 95% share then you'll have to add on another 5% (maybe more*), which I am afraid puts it into Band C.

    *When a property is owned by more than one entity, the value of the whole property may well be reduced because of this. Having to share ownership puts people off. Also although on paper the HA own only 5%, should their share be available to purchase, its value may well be worth more than 5% of the whole property value, because of the opportunity for the other owner to own 100% of the property.

    Sorry don't understand what you are talking about, it was not built until 1993 so why would I need to add 10% to the price to backdate it to 1991? Why should I need to worry about shared ownership of the property putting people off, the value of the property is only relevant for council tax banding ?????? Also the 5% is NOT available to purchase, that is the whole idea of the HA retaining the 5% because they do not want anyone to be able to sell to anyone under 60 !
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 18,905 Forumite
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    JWhite wrote: »
    On paper the HA owns the other 5% but I have been told by the current owners that when you sell the seller gets 100% of the money paid

    Yes because the seller is only selling his share for which he is entitled to receive all monies from the sale thereof. You will have bought a 95% share in the bungalow.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 18,905 Forumite
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    JWhite wrote: »
    Sorry don't understand what you are talking about, it was not built until 1993 so why would I need to add 10% to the price to backdate it to 1991? Why should I need to worry about shared ownership of the property putting people off, the value of the property is only relevant for council tax banding ?????? Also the 5% is NOT available to purchase, that is the whole idea of the HA retaining the 5% because they do not want anyone to be able to sell to anyone under 60 !

    Council Tax bands are based on property values as at 1 Apr 1991, 1993 values were at least 10% (up to 25% in some cases) below those of 1991.

    It is the value of the whole property sold as a 100% share that is looked at for CT purposes, the £47,950 only represents a 95% share and this sale price may (and I stress may) represent a value lower than 95% of the whole property. So although the 1993 sale price may seem helpful it has to be adjusted to bring it into line with basis of valuation for Council Tax.

    Whether or not the HA would sell their share is irrelevant for CT purposes.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 18,905 Forumite
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    I've copied these two extracts from VOA website

    http://www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/CouncilTax/howYourHomeIsbanded.html

    The starting point
    The basis of valuation for a dwelling which is not used for any business purpose is the amount which, subject to certain assumptions, it would have sold for, on the 'open market' by a 'willing vendor' on 1 April 1991 in England and 1 April 2003 in Wales.

    'open market' means a market where the property is offered openly with adequate publicity being given to the sale. Please note that if your property was purchased under a discount scheme (such as 'Right to Buy') this does not fall within the definition of 'open market' and therefore will not apply.
    'willing vendor' means someone who sells the property as a free agent and not someone who is forced to do so.
    Why 1 April 1991 in England?

    Council Tax came into effect on 1 April 1993. However, the process of valuing every domestic property in England and Wales for banding purposes started some time before this. Therefore, we had to adopt a valuation date prior to 1 April 1993 so that all properties would be valued on a common footing. Even if your property was built after 1 April 1993, we must band the property according to what we think that its value would have been on 1 April 1991. This means that recent sale prices are not necessarily a good guide to the correct band for a property.

    Assumptions
    Because we must ensure a common approach to valuing all domestic properties for council tax, we must make a number of standard assumptions about your property.

    The main assumptions that we must make when deciding the price a dwelling would have sold for on 1 April 1991 in England, 1 April 2003 in Wales, are as follows:

    that the sale was with vacant possession;
    that the interest sold was freehold except for flats when a lease for 99 years at a nominal rent has to be assumed (The actual lease term is ignored);
    that the dwelling had no potential for any building work or other development requiring planning permission;
    that the size, layout, and character of the dwelling as well as its locality must be considered as they actually existed at 1 April 1993 (2003 in Wales) or, depending on the circumstances, a later date;
    that the dwelling (and any common parts such as an entrance or hallway shared with other dwellings) was in a 'state of reasonable repair'.
    It is important to emphasise that we must, by law, make these 'assumptions' in order to ensure a common approach to valuing properties for council tax.

    For example, two identical flats within a purpose built block may have different lease terms. Whilst one flat may have 15 years remaining on its lease, another may have 40 years remaining. An identical flat in a nearby block may have an unexpired lease term of 110 years. However, for council tax purposes, all the flats will be valued as though they are held on a 99 year lease.

    This approach ensures that similar properties within the same area are not placed in various different council tax bands.

    Likewise, if the sale price of a property sold with a 'sitting tenant' is less than that of its identical neighbours, it does not mean that the property should be placed in a lower council tax band. This is because we must assume that the sale was with 'vacant possession'.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
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