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Public Sector wages rising despite pay "freeze"

Almost eight in 10 public sector managers said they will continue to give workers annual pay “increments”, salary increases automatically awarded to reflect the length of a worker’s service. Most public bodies have also made no move to reduce the generosity of redundancy payments to departing staff.

The survey was carried out by Hay Group, a personnel consultancy, which predicted that some public bodies will see their wage bill rise this year because managers have not tried to curb costs.

Ministers have said that basic rates of pay should be frozen in the public sector, but other aspects of staff compensation appear to be unaffected by the pledge.

As well as annual pay awards to reflect the rising cost of living, many public bodies have a “pay spine” system where an employee’s salary rises automatically with each year of service.

A Hay survey of personnel managers from central government, councils, universities, police forces and the NHS found that only 21 per cent planned to freeze automatic annual increments.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8717167/Automatic-pay-rises-for-public-sector-staff.html
“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.

Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

-- President John F. Kennedy”
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Comments

  • lindsaygalaxy
    lindsaygalaxy Posts: 2,067 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 23 August 2011 at 9:48AM
    The increments also cover extra duties and responsibilites but with no extra for rise in inflaton you find yourself working harder and for longer days with more stress for less than the true value. I speak as someone who has just completed my NQT year in teaching, taking on several co-ordinators roles, while running and being responsible for KS1 and looking after my own 2 young children. Even moving 1 point up the pay scale my pay per hour works out very little and I would get paid more in retail. I lose out on several hundereds not getting a pay rise with inflation. I think its terrible how the papers are bashing everyone that works in the public services treating us like we don't work very hard and don't deserve to get paid.
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  • Percy1983
    Percy1983 Posts: 5,244 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Being a public sector worker I am going to stand up for this.

    In my case there is 4 levels on my pay scale and as you say I have progressed up them over the last few years despite a pay freeze.

    But with that I haven't have any percentage on top said pay scale.

    Now I ask this question, I work with somebody on the same scale who has been here longer so was already at the top of the scale. Now my wages should be level with them after 3 years to which it now is, where you suggest I should suffer more because I started here later?

    With that hopefully we will be back to something this next year, then I would have had a rise every year.
    Have my first business premises (+4th business) 01/11/2017
    Quit day job to run 3 businesses 08/02/2017
    Started third business 25/06/2016
    Son born 13/09/2015
    Started a second business 03/08/2013
    Officially the owner of my own business since 13/01/2012
  • Mallotum_X
    Mallotum_X Posts: 2,591 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Meanwhile back in the real world, everyone else is working harder or taking extra responsilities for no extra money. But in the public sector its a right...

    A pay freeze should be that, no rises just 'cos you been there another year'.... Fair play if someone has actually been promoted but it seems like these increments and fake promotions are just being used to get pay rises.
  • laurel7172
    laurel7172 Posts: 2,071 Forumite
    Erm...nope.

    Despite being on a low enough salary to have been exempt from the pay freeze, apparently this is at the local authority's discretion. So our LA is pocketing the pay rises of the low paid, despite having had the money for them from the government.

    Oh, sorry-it's all wine and caviar for the public sector, isn't it? The Telegraph would obviously know..
    import this
  • ILW
    ILW Posts: 18,333 Forumite
    Percy1983 wrote: »
    Being a public sector worker I am going to stand up for this.

    In my case there is 4 levels on my pay scale and as you say I have progressed up them over the last few years despite a pay freeze.

    But with that I haven't have any percentage on top said pay scale.

    Now I ask this question, I work with somebody on the same scale who has been here longer so was already at the top of the scale. Now my wages should be level with them after 3 years to which it now is, where you suggest I should suffer more because I started here later?

    With that hopefully we will be back to something this next year, then I would have had a rise every year.

    That attitude that I deserve more pay because I have been here a long time really annoys me. Pay should be based on results and value to the employer, not how long one has been around.
    The public sector do not seem to get it at all.
  • MacMickster
    MacMickster Posts: 3,646 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ILW wrote: »
    That attitude that I deserve more pay because I have been here a long time really annoys me. Pay should be based on results and value to the employer, not how long one has been around.
    The public sector do not seem to get it at all.

    I don't work in the public sector, but surely you are saying that people should be paid the rate for the job. If I was working alongside someone and doing an equally good or better job than them, then I would expect to be paid the same,or my employer would be getting my labour on the cheap.

    Think of increments as a bit like the minimum wage. Youngsters get less as they bring little experience to the workplace, but as they get older and their skills increase they get paid more until they eventually get paid the rate for the job.
    "When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
  • Percy1983
    Percy1983 Posts: 5,244 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Mallotum_X wrote: »
    Meanwhile back in the real world, everyone else is working harder or taking extra responsilities for no extra money. But in the public sector its a right...

    A pay freeze should be that, no rises just 'cos you been there another year'.... Fair play if someone has actually been promoted but it seems like these increments and fake promotions are just being used to get pay rises.

    So all the private sector as had no pay rises for 3 years?

    You certainly miss the point of in my case the final stage of my salary band is the fair wage for the job, the lower levels are just getting a few years cheaper labour out of me.

    As I say what you are says if people who started in the last few years should suffer more than those who have been there a few years.

    As I say I am worth the same as sombody doing the same job and I have got to the same point as them in the same time period they did, meanwhile we have both had 0% cost of living increases.

    With that if they did try to stop the salary band increments there would have been many strikes, as you can imagine we are all getting the same 'bad' deal here, but if you start freezing pay increments you will be treating some members of staff differently to others, which of course is asking for trouble.
    Have my first business premises (+4th business) 01/11/2017
    Quit day job to run 3 businesses 08/02/2017
    Started third business 25/06/2016
    Son born 13/09/2015
    Started a second business 03/08/2013
    Officially the owner of my own business since 13/01/2012
  • StevieJ
    StevieJ Posts: 20,174 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    I don't see any problem with this, otherwise you end up with equally qualified/experienced employees on different pay for no other reason than they are older/younger
    'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher
  • lindsaygalaxy
    lindsaygalaxy Posts: 2,067 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 23 August 2011 at 10:11AM
    Mallotum_X wrote: »
    Meanwhile back in the real world, everyone else is working harder or taking extra responsilities for no extra money. But in the public sector its a right...

    A pay freeze should be that, no rises just 'cos you been there another year'.... Fair play if someone has actually been promoted but it seems like these increments and fake promotions are just being used to get pay rises.


    It is not any public sectors fault that you chose not to work in the public sector. I spent several years working in the private sector and like many people I know still in the private sector, got to enjoy work paid trips out, incentives and a yearly (and for some a monthly) bonus. Instead I decided to choose to dedicate my life to educating young people, as well as all the other stuff that goes on behind the scenes - councilling children and parents, supporting families with children who have special needs, being constantly under scrutiny by every parent, teacher, governor etc about the job I am doing and re learning every new policy the government comes out with.

    May I ask, what do people think the people in the public sector should get paid to educate, save lives, rescue people, protect people...etc? Should we get paid minimum wage? Should we work for free? Maybe people in the so called 'real world' would like to come spend some time doing what we do, going to Uni for 4 years getting in loads of debt, having to pass tests and being observed regularly, always being critisised constantly, and then being told you don't deserve getting paid more with knowldge and experience because in the private sector we have decided you don't deserve it as we can obviously do the job better!
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  • StevieJ
    StevieJ Posts: 20,174 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Mallotum_X wrote: »
    Meanwhile back in the real world, everyone else is working harder or taking extra responsilities for no extra money. But in the public sector its a right...

    A pay freeze should be that, no rises just 'cos you been there another year'.... Fair play if someone has actually been promoted but it seems like these increments and fake promotions are just being used to get pay rises.

    That would be fine if everyone was on 'the rate for the job' but they are not. The same thing happens in say accountancy/law firms where employees are on training rates until they qualify, do you not think they should get a pay rise as they improve their suitability to perform a job?
    'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher
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