Cost of a Master Degree

BEEJJ_2

Hi,

new here and maybe wrong forum...

Does anyone know why...

If you do a 4 year degree that gives you a Masters qualification you can get student funding for the 4 years.

If you do a 3 year Batchelors degree and then wish to do a further Masters you cannot get funding for the Masters year.

If you do a 3 year degree and flunk one of the years and repeat you can get funding for the 'extra' year.

At the moment my son is having to take out a business loan to fund a Masters - is this the best way of doing it?

The_One_Who

One is an undergraduate masters, the other is a postgraduate. That is the difference. If you do a year abroad or a sandwich placement for your course you still get funded the extra year because it is a part of the undergraduate degree.

There is little funding for postgraduate courses generally, and that pot is only getting smaller.

BEEJJ_2

The_One_Who wrote: »

One is an undergraduate masters, the other is a postgraduate. That is the difference. If you do a year abroad or a sandwich placement for your course you still get funded the extra year because it is a part of the undergraduate degree.

There is little funding for postgraduate courses generally, and that pot is only getting smaller.

Yes but it is not that simple. On a 4 year course you get a Batchelor (arts or sciences) after 3 years. You can choose not to go on to complete the 4th year. If you do go on technically you should be a graduate.

The_One_Who

BEEJJ wrote: »

Yes but it is not that simple. On a 4 year course you get a Batchelor (arts or sciences) after 3 years. You can choose not to go on to complete the 4th year. If you do go on technically you should be a graduate.

But it has still been done through the undergraduate system. You haven't actually finished the course you originally signed up to do. Graduating and then applying for a completely new course is a very different thing from starting on an undergraduate masters from the first.

Even though leaving after the third year gives you a Bachelors degree, the actual degree that those doing the four years will get is likely to be an MSci (Hons). It is one degree. On their certificate it will only have the MSci part. Those who do an undergraduate and then a masters are doing two distinct degrees.

Oldernotwiser

BEEJJ wrote: »

Yes but it is not that simple. On a 4 year course you get a Batchelor (arts or sciences) after 3 years. You can choose not to go on to complete the 4th year. If you do go on technically you should be a graduate.

It doesn't work like this at all.

Most undergraduate degrees are BSc/BA/etc; you don't just go on and do a top up for another year to get a Masters.

BEEJJ_2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

It doesn't work like this at all.

Most undergraduate degrees are BSc/BA/etc; you don't just go on and do a top up for another year to get a Masters.

Actually my example is a VERY common way of doing a degree. Chemical Engineering at Bath for example. I know because my son did one. He was on the Masters 4 year course and elected after 3 years to finish with a Bsc. Equally there were some who started on the BSc ( because of their A level grades ) and then were allowed at the end of 3 years to go on and complete the Masters.


Obviously not all degrees offer a Masters in one go but engineering is not the only one

I do know what I am talking about- I am just pointing out the somewhat inequality of being able to get funding for 4 years ( and we are only talking about loans here) in some circumstances and not others. Why should it matter if the course/degree is different? It is still 4 years of loans!

The_One_Who

The government will fund you for the number of years your course lasts, be that three, four, five or even more years. If the course normally takes four years to complete, then that's fine. It's not a case of doing two different degrees or anything like that.

On the degree certificate of the person with the MSci it will only have that, it won't have any mention of the fact that they could have left after three and got a BSc. In some cases an undergraduate masters degree isn't seen as being on the same level as a postgraduate one either.

BEEJJ_2

The_One_Who wrote: »

The government will fund you for the number of years your course lasts, be that three, four, five or even more years. If the course normally takes four years to complete, then that's fine. It's not a case of doing two different degrees or anything like that.



On the degree certificate of the person with the MSci it will only have that, it won't have any mention of the fact that they could have left after three and got a BSc. In some cases an undergraduate masters degree isn't seen as being on the same level as a postgraduate one either.

The last point is not true and irrelevant anyway.

When my son left with a Bsc he went of to do a Msc in something else- he could not get a student loan. His friend who stayed on to do the 4th year and ended up with a Msc got a loan for the year. It does not make sense. They both stayed at the same UNI I can explain the way it works - it just does not make sense that is all.

Oldernotwiser

BEEJJ wrote: »

Actually my example is a VERY common way of doing a degree. Chemical Engineering at Bath for example. I know because my son did one. He was on the Masters 4 year course and elected after 3 years to finish with a Bsc. Equally there were some who started on the BSc ( because of their A level grades ) and then were allowed at the end of 3 years to go on and complete the Masters.


Obviously not all degrees offer a Masters in one go but engineering is not the only one

I do know what I am talking about- I am just pointing out the somewhat inequality of being able to get funding for 4 years ( and we are only talking about loans here) in some circumstances and not others. Why should it matter if the course/degree is different? It is still 4 years of loans!

It's very common in Engineering but in hardly any other subjects!

ETA.

If you look at the Bath prospectus you'll see that the MEng they offer is, as The One Who says, an undergraduate degree, which is why there is funding available.

http://www.bath.ac.uk/chem-eng/admissions/ug-brochure2.html

Your son has chosen the BEng route and has now gone on to do a post graduate Masters degree, for which there is little funding. I can see that this might be confusing but you're not comparing like with like.

stevenhp1987

four year courses are undergraduate masters.

You get funded for all four years.

I did an undergraduate masters. You only get the masters, you do not get a bachelors degree and as such are not a graduate in your final (masters) year. It is also an honours degree, so you get a classification rather than a distinction and pass like an MSc. Obviously the masters you get is worth the same as a bachlers plus masters, but the masters year is easier (60 credits less).

The_One_Who

BEEJJ wrote: »

The last point is not true and irrelevant anyway.

When my son left with a Bsc he went of to do a Msc in something else- he could not get a student loan. His friend who stayed on to do the 4th year and ended up with a Msc got a loan for the year. It does not make sense. They both stayed at the same UNI I can explain the way it works - it just does not make sense that is all.

It is true, in some cases. I know someone who did one who then had to do a postgraduate masters before being able to start his PhD. The undergraduate masters wasn't deemed as rigorous by the PhD university. But yes, irrelevant.

They probably weren't doing the same course, at least not under the same title. An MSci (or MEng) and an MSc are completely different. One is undergraduate, one is postgraduate. It can be confusing for those who aren't aware of the differences.

For example, the Ancient Scottish universities aware MA (Hons) degrees to arts students. These are normal undergraduate degrees on completely the same level as a BSc or a BA. However, a lot of people do think they are masters degrees. It is the Hons part that is the giveaway.

Either way, it does make sense. Undergraduate degrees are funded, postgraduate are not. Those who do an undergraduate masters degree (usually only available in some science and engineering courses) are still undergraduates and so eligible for funding.