New boiler needed - which type?

abankerbutnotafatcat

The existing boiler, the standard type with tanks, has stopped igniting. The boiler engineer took one look and said it needed replacing and quoted for a combi.

Perhaps it is repairable but the boiler is around 30 years old so I accept that I've had a good run and it may well be time to bite the bullet.

My question - it's a 3 bedroom property occupied by 4 adults. There is only one bathroom (don't worry - there are 2 toilets!!). It is a rental property so to be honest reliability is more important than fuel efficiency.

Any thoughts/suggestions about whether a combi boiler is the way to go. Any recommendation of particular models. All advice very gratefully received:)

GlynD

Your existing plumbing setup will need modification to accept a combi boiler. Your gas input may also need replacing as pipe sizes for combi boilers are larger than the older gas feeds. The efficiency of the combi boiler can't be argued but make sure you are going to get enough pressure on your hot water feed to let you take a shower whilst the dishwasher or washing machine is also running otherwise you will be a bit annoyed.

Perhaps by bumping this someone with more expertise than I will be able to give you more technical knowledge. I have faced this dilemmna before however and chose to replace like for like instead of going down the combi route. Mostly because we had just had new floors laid and to replace the gas feed pipe would have meant lifting them again.

gas4you

Chances are that the existing hot water cylinder is around 30 years old as when ?

In that case a combi would probably be the cheaper to install.

Make sure you have the cold mains flow checked and the pressure as said above.

If the flow is suitable, go for a 28kw/30kw and not a 24kw for a cheaper quote.

Make is up to you, but there are some good deals on good boilers out there.

You should be able to pick up a good boiler with up to 10 years full warranty on it now.

Look at the Intergas, Atmos or even the brand new Sime Murelle. All are very good boilers.

heating-eng

gas4you wrote: »

Chances are that the existing hot water cylinder is around 30 years old as when ?

In that case a combi would probably be the cheaper to install.

Make sure you have the cold mains flow checked and the pressure as said above.

If the flow is suitable, go for a 28kw/30kw and not a 24kw for a cheaper quote.

Make is up to you, but there are some good deals on good boilers out there.

You should be able to pick up a good boiler with up to 10 years full warranty on it now.

Look at the Intergas, Atmos or even the brand new Sime Murelle. All are very good boilers.

I wouldn't fit any of them boilers myself.
Baxi, valiant or even a ferroli if you want cheaper opinion.

abankerbutnotafatcat

gas4you wrote: »

Chances are that the existing hot water cylinder is around 30 years old as when ?

In that case a combi would probably be the cheaper to install.

Make sure you have the cold mains flow checked and the pressure as said above.

If the flow is suitable, go for a 28kw/30kw and not a 24kw for a cheaper quote.

Make is up to you, but there are some good deals on good boilers out there.

You should be able to pick up a good boiler with up to 10 years full warranty on it now.

Look at the Intergas, Atmos or even the brand new Sime Murelle. All are very good boilers.

Thank you for your help. Can I please clarify your first sentence so that I fully understand the implications - how would the age of my boiler impact whether a combi or a like-for-like replacement is cheaper. I had thought that combi boilers needed different pipes?

I will also find out the water flow. What would it need to be for a 28/30w model?

I can't remember the make/model of the boiler (I will find out) other than it's one of the classics like Potterton and I was advised that it was c20 years old when I bought the house 14 years ago.

abankerbutnotafatcat

heating-eng wrote: »

I wouldn't fit any of them boilers myself.
Baxi, valiant or even a ferroli if you want cheaper opinion.

Hi, thanks for your thoughts. Is there something about these boilers that makes you not want to fit them or are you just more specialist with the ones you mention. It's just I thought you would fit a range of boilers depending on customer requirements/specifications. Sorry if i'm asking stupid questions but it's a very big spend and an area I know very little about.

heating-eng

abankerbutnotafatcat wrote: »

Hi, thanks for your thoughts. Is there something about these boilers that makes you not want to fit them or are you just more specialist with the ones you mention. It's just I thought you would fit a range of boilers depending on customer requirements/specifications. Sorry if i'm asking stupid questions but it's a very big spend and an area I know very little about.

The quality of the boilers are not as good in my opinion, a lot of the very cheap makes of boilers have added a very long warranty and then double the price of the boiler to suit.
When I was working at BG I went to a job, sales lead, customer wanted a quote for a new boiler, the boiler was still under warranty, the customer had waited 2 weeks or more for the boiler to be fixed, this had happened at least 10 times in 4 years, this was one of these boilers with long warrantys, also if they can get out of the warranty claim by saying it wasn't serviced correctly or installed correctly they will.
Please be very careful people on forums will try and tell you that the boilers they fit are the best and by putting it on forums others will see it also.
I will fit any boiler the customers asks me too, but I will always tell them the ones I think are better,
Regards.

evoke

The quality of the installation is worth far more than ANY boiler. I learned this recently from bitter experience!

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is to get an experienced heating engineer who is not aligned to one brand to check what you have and ask the right questions about what you want to end up with. Make sure he does proper room and house sizing to specify the correct radiator sizes and boiler output - also consider wireless thermostats and frost-protection. Make sure things like condensate pipes are properly lagged and are wide enough to stop the water inside freezing up during a cold spell.

Get your mains water supply pressure and flow-rate and gas supply tested BEFORE going ahead with any installation.y

I learned all of the above the hard way by using a crap heating company.

Chances are that a combi system may not be sufficient for your needs if multiple demands on hot water are placed simultaneously.

Also bear in mind that you may not have toilet/washing facilities for a period of time during the installation.

But above all, employ the services of someone who knows about heating systems. I cannot emphasise that the design, sizing, preparation and implementation of a cnetral heating/hot water system is priceless and the make of a boiler is entirely secondary to all of that.

gas4you

All the boilers I mention are not cheap boilers by any standards.

The Atmos and intergas are excellent boilers and as they have less parts will therefore have less chance of going wrong.

The Sime has the same components as most other boilers, in fact they make their own Giannoni heat exchanger under licence and make the Giannoni for Vaillant as well.

The worst after sales service is without doubt from Vaillant. All those I mention would have any warranty work usually carried out by whoever fitted it and they would or should, carry the spares kit on their van for a first time fix. Depends whether you want to use an installer who is good enough and been trained to be a service engineer for your particular boiler, or use someone who just installs and doesn't know how to fix them.

If you have to replace the cylinder, then if you had a new standard heat only boiler this would cause the work to be more expensive as compared to a new combi being fitted.

macman

It's not really a technical choice, it's a lifestyle choice. A combi supplies on-demand hot water or central heating (not both simultaneously), a conventional boiler provides stored hot water, in a hot water tank with an airing cupboard. Which do you want?
A combi is cheaper to install for the reason already given.

ziggyman99

macman wrote: »

It's not really a technical choice, it's a lifestyle choice. A combi supplies on-demand hot water or central heating (not both simultaneously), a conventional boiler provides stored hot water, in a hot water tank with an airing cupboard. Which do you want?
A combi is cheaper to install for the reason already given.

How is that a lifestyle choice? It would be a lifestyle choice if it was a choice between hot water or no hot water.
It's exactly a technical choice, you don't care how it's made as that isn't going to impair your lifestyle, as long as you get hot water.