Swansea City PCN

taffy056

Well it makes a change, but I am after advice myself, got a PCN from Swansea City Council, basically my wife was driving my sisters car, she is a nurse parked on DYL to visit a patient, and she forgot her permit as it was in our car that just failed its MOT, we have had notice to owner which went to my sister's place, and there is no option for naming the driver, or photos.

I have posted this on pepipoo but am getting little or no advice, so hoping someone can help here instead.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=63056

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Glantawe+Street,+Swansea&hl=en&ll=51.664144,-3.924372&spn=0.009357,0.018282&sll=-34.016242,18.457031&sspn=50.58664,74.882813&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.665089,-3.924333&panoid=z0j7GWnaDWj310HRuQR_RA&cbp=12,61.92,,1,8.11

http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n491/taffy056/

Coupon-mad

Two appeal points have been given so far by pepipoo I think:

- The DYL not having a termination bar (if that's still the case) and

- The 'vague locus' on the PCN not stating the location clearly (they didn't mean YOU not stating it clearly). As the Council have not provided photos either how is the owner to know where the alleged contravention occurred?

And you included a page in your photos that looks as if it was part of the PCN, which includes the wrong wording on the time they have to pay ('within xx days' is wrong and confusing as it is at odds with the correct info on the front of the PCN 'beginning with the date on which this PCN was served').

And your sister has the mitigating circs of your wife being a nurse on duty, visiting a patient. She should state that the car was being used by a different driver who was a nurse on duty - enclose a signed note from your wife stating she was visiting a patient in that Street (do not give house number, don't give them the location!) but was unaware of not displaying her permit or contravening any Traffic Order. Your sister, making the appeal, should also not mention anything about which house the car was parked outside (how can your wife be expected to know, as she wasn't there and the Council have not shown any evidence of the precise location of the contravention?).

Do I take it that no informal appeal was made, so your sister is now in for the full £70? If so then she may as well appeal all the way to adjudication as there's no money to lose. All or nothing to pay so absolutely no point opening her chequebook just yet! If she makes it clear she's in it for the long haul to adjudication maybe they will cancel on the mitigating circs.

I would draft an appeal incorporating the above and add it to pepipoo in the hope of some experts seeing it and helping you to tweak it.

taffy056

Thanks coupon, my Sis is going nuts she thinks the clampers are coming

taffy056

Coupon-mad wrote: »

And you included a page in your photos that looks as if it was part of the PCN, which includes the wrong wording on the time they have to pay ('within xx days' is wrong and confusing as it is at odds with the correct info on the front of the PCN 'beginning with the date on which this PCN was served').

Coupon I am just writing the appeal now, and am confused by this, could you point out where the two are confusing? Sorry must be going blind lol

Coupon-mad

The statutory wording for a PCN on the windscreen is for it to say that the penalty charge 'must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN was served'. Which is what it says on the front. So you count forward only 27 days, in effect.

But on the 'instructions for payment' (which I assume is part of the PCN?) it mis-states the time allowed to pay by saying 'payment of this PCN must be received 'within 28 days of the date of issue'. Any ordinary person would read 'within 28 days of' as counting ON 28 days from the date of issue, which gains an extra day from the statutory wording and is wrong. 'Date of issue' is wrong as well because issue is not always 'service date', they have been lazy and not updated that sheet to reflect the required wording.

I have seen this used on pepipoo before, I think they say in any appeal something to the effect that the PCN is confusing as it states two different timings for making payment which is prejudicial and not as defined in the regulations.

I would see what pepipoo say about this though, so show them a draft of what you are thinking of saying first.

taffy056

Thanks thats very helpful, will run it passed pepipoo first, if anyone replies, bit disappointed in the lack of a reply with them, we refer a lot of people there and I do wonder if people going there are getting help.

taffy056

Coupon

Quick question, who posted that real long letter of appeal for councils, you know the one about CEOs being dressed properly and so on, was thinking of adding some of that to my appeal?

Sirdan

taffy056 wrote: »

Coupon

Quick question, who posted that real long letter of appeal for councils, you know the one about CEOs being dressed properly and so on, was thinking of adding some of that to my appeal?

Try Post number 6 here :-


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2764708

taffy056

many thanks Sirdan

Coupon-mad

Just bumped lots of unanswered threads on pepipoo including yours. They are very busy now that they have split the forum into two with separate PPC queries, it seems some of the threads get missed.

taffy056

Just thought I'd come back to this thread just to say the appeal was successful, they took the mitigating circumstances into consideration and cancelled the ticket which is good news, think the real reason was because of how much they messed up the pcn in the first place.

Still thanks for the help, much appreciated, just shows that appeals work with councils at times if you call their bluff, unlike the scammers !