Moral Canundrum with a difference - get involved or not ?

Cyril

Ok this is a bit different to the usual posts on here but I didn't know where else to put it and will make more sense to anyone with horses.

Here goes - at our local equestrian centre there is a demo / clinic evening planned with a local professional rider and the idea is that is they promote their training tips / methods and horses for the audience and they are usually great fun and very entertaining. Some of the audience often are then encouraged by what they see to book lessons or even approach about horses for sale and usually this is fine but.....

in this case the guy is a con artist. I myself lost money through using him and just put it down to experience but am a member of a local forum and posted a thread asking for feedback good or bad from others and I was inundated with private messages and horror stories from people he's treated badly. Things like he has knowingly sold a sick horse to someone, he lies about the origin of a horse and what its done. He charges owners for taking a horse to a show but the horse never goes to the show, he'll take money for lessons and then never be available to give them and it goes on and on. There are many many incidences of dissatisfied customers but these are a flavour. If your wondering why if his behaviour is so bad why isn't it known its because a, he chooses his victims carefully ie those he thinks are naive and less experienced and those who aren't high profile, basically anyone who he thinks he can get away with it from and he's very charming so people who haven't dealt directly with him can't believe it. Secondly any court papers served are settled before it gets that far so nothings in the public domain. Thirdly anything said is by PM because people are worried about slander so again not in the public domain.

My thoughts are to do nothing if I'm honest but someone has said I should do something to protect others from the same fate. The options are

Do nothing its buyer beware and all that
Send a letter enclosing the forum letters to the Riding Centre for them to make their own mind up
Send copies to him so he knows people are discussing what he's been doing hoping it may curtail his activity

Any thoughts.

mummyroysof3

can you not warn the people who run the centre? or at least those who are friends that may attend it?

newcook

I would email the equestrian centre detailing my concerns. do you still have the PM's?! if so put into your email to them that you also have further evidence if they would like to see it to back up your claims

Lotus-eater

Is this not something trading standards will look into?

Certainly contact the riding centre with the info you have.

BitterAndTwisted

Exercise extreme caution about distributing anything in writing unless you are very familiar with the libel laws in this country.

I think it would be enough to say to the centre that there has been plenty of adverse opinion about them. Do not put anything in writing.

Cyril

Thanks both.

Yes I have warned my friends and yes I do have the PM's so could include them.

The thing is though I don't really want to identify its me sending the stuff though, as I'm local I don't want to cause a sandstorm or have him sueing me for defamation etc.

Lotus-eater

Do you know anyone at the centre you could have a quiet word with?

Otherwise I would be tempted to send an anonymous letter detailing basic problems that have occurred.

Cyril

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Exercise extreme caution about distributing anything in writing unless you are very familiar with the libel laws in this country.

I think it would be enough to say to the centre that there has been plenty of adverse opinion about them. Do not put anything in writing.

See this is why its not in the public domain because people are worried about being sued, its all this clandestine PMing that has really highlighted for me how many others have had problems with him.

elvis86

Remove any names/email addresses etc and anonymously send all the bad reports to the Centre? That way it's their funeral.

MrsAtobe

I'm with elvis86 on this one - sanitize the messages, and send them to the centre anonymously. I'm sure you know how cliquey the equestrian world can be, and I do understand your concerns.

Eta by sanitize, I mean remove details that could be used to identify the person who has sent them to you. This may not be just the email addresses, if there are dates, etc in there then they may need to come out.

orlao

I would be surprised if most people around the area don't know of his dodgy practices already - the horse world is built on word of mouth and reputation as I'm sure you already know;) Do encourage others to talk to TS if he is taking money without providing services or lying about sales - the same criteria applies to horse sales as second hand car sales and you can go through the small claims track of the Civil Courts to recover losses.

Personally, I would let my wallet do the talking - don't buy tickets, ring the EC and tell them that you are disappointed that they would deal with someone like him and as a result, you won't be supporting them as you used to and encourage others to do the same. The problem with anonymous emails or the like is that if you (and others) don't have the courage of your convictions and aren't prepared to stand up in public to tell your stories you can't really expect anyone to act on your info - while it is despicable behaviour it isn't illegal... BTW it's only slander/libel if the accusation is untrue.

Tell your farrier:D every single one I know is the biggest gossip ever and they do tend to put the bits together and come to a fairly accurate conclusion. I know I always ask mine for his opinion on a yard/vet/instructor/physio and while I don't take it as gospel I will always listen at least.

However, again as I'm sure you know there are many ways to skin a cat (figuratively speaking!) and the horse world has many different methods, ideologies etc which can mean that an actually good horse person can be loved and loathed in equal measures depending on who you are talking to. Not all horsey people are sensible or honest about their needs/abilities and many horses have a self harming tendency especially when they go to a new home. I'm not saying that you aren't correct about this person but there could be at least one other side to some of these tales of woe...