British Gas Smart Meter - Beware

AppleMonkey

Would be just as 'Dangerous' now as it was before the pipe was replaced.

Of course in-between all your sarcasm the only thing you need to know is that if you require the earthing to be carried out then a plumber / electrician will be able to do that, But then of course you would rather blame National Grid and British Gas for giving you advice - After all they cannot make you get it done.

In terms of the meter that actually belongs to British Gas not National Grid only the pipe running unto the meter is there responsibility. And the meter doesn't need earthing its the pipework inside your home - Hence why they are not responsible for it - After all you cannot get a shock off there plastic pipe coming up your driveway but you could get a shock off your copper pipes for you Central Heating system should a live cable touch it in the future.

Think of it like this -

If you had a leaking gas pipe outside your house - National Grid would have to repair it.
If you had a leaking gas pipe inside your house - You would need a Gas Engineer / Plumber.

In terms of earthing -

If you were at risk from getting a shock because of national grids pipeline - They would probably be legislated to earth it.
Because the only risk exists inside your house - You (If you want it) are liable to get it carried out.

NG aren't trying to put the wind up you - They are simply advising you that in a perfect world that would be done.

Tangible

I know nothing of itinerant tradesman who knock on my door out of the blue at the behest of National Grid, and their belief that I should nonchalantly take their word (the tradesmans' that is) as to what work I should allow them to undertake on my property, which is not only quaintly naive, it also an outrageous abrogation of their statutory and legal obligations to me.

They don't even meet normal standards of proper standards of behaviour but I will make them fulfill their obligations to me in scrupulous detail and I would recommend any other forum readers do the same, otherise they are liable to overrun your property because they believe they can.

Considering that they have been replacing metal pipes with plastic ones, and that the meter itself has been completely replaced and re-sited in a very different position , speculation as to where the original earth cable is now, is only going to cause me to show you just how sarcastic I can be. I do hope they didn't stretch it from its original position.

I appreciate that talking utter techno drivel is an area of expertise at which Natinal Grid excels but their competence at simple DIY has been demonstrated amply to me.

It's not possible that anything that was earthed is now earthed if National Grid did nothing to change the situation when they replaced the meter. Thus by simple logic - through the intermediary of an anonymous tradesman they are owning up to having installed an unearthed gas meter.

That probably is dangerous - but I have good reason to know how dangerous it is to allow National Grid to appoint itinerant tradesmen to run riot on your property.

I'll be getting a technical report on the current earthing arrangements together with their explanation as to why they consider it unsatisfactory, and why they didn't consider it necessary on installation.

It's really quite simple, to me if not National Grid.

I would also add that where they knocked a new hole in my outside wall I now have a new source of daylight thereby helping to ventilate the ground floor. Their concern for my safety only appears to apply to the abysmal quality of their workmanship.

jalexa

Tangible wrote: »

...they are owning up to having installed an unearthed gas meter.

That probably is dangerous...

As explained already in at least one previous post, this is "probably not" dangerous and is not at all a "gas issue". In fact the replacement of metal pipes by plastic makes it less "dangerous".

The issue is "main equipotential bonding" of your electrical system and is required to satisfy "wiring regulations" not gas regulations, something that your technical report (I presume a "periodic inspection report" or PIR) will confirm the status of.

I have dipped in and out of your "issue" and you have my sympathy, but not on the earthing issue.

Tangible

The word "dangerous' was actually used by this itinerant tradesman presumably appointed as technical expert by National Grid.

Would you like to explain to National Grid's techncal experts that they're bumpkins ? I must assume that they employ people with half a clue, though past experience is not reassuring. I'm somewhat amused that you consider their technical expertise to be as questionable as I do, but at least we agree on one thing.

I dug a hole and you fell in. I feel a part of National Grid already. I will refer to them as 'Notional Grid' henceforth in view of their less than reliable activities.

Now about daylight coming through the hole in the wall. Another 'faux pas' in the technical department. It's probably the quick fix in case of gas leaks.

Tangible

I have had enough of this never ending saga and it now has priority over every other function I perform.

This is how I believe Notional Grid should operate

1. If Notional Grid plan to perform any work that impacts on a consumer's power supply or requires access to their property then advanced notice in writing should be sent with the opportunity to agree a suitable date and time.

2. If Notional Grid are planning to use sub-contractors then their identity should be disclosed so that they can be identified.

3. Consumers with medical problems should have their needs assessed.

4. Agreed times and dates should be adhered to, and the work intended should be surveyed beforehand so that some idea of what work is necessary can be conveyed to the consumer, especially if it involves using pneumatic drills on their property.

5. Consumers should be warned of their intention to cut off their supply and arrangements made to furnish alternative arrangements if it is intended to remain that way for longer than a day.

This is a basic outline of some obligations Notional Grid should abide by as a core standard, none of which they adhered to in my case, which caused me at one stage to threaten to eject them from my property by calling the police. I did find a charter they've drawn up and I will be going through it point by point when lay the whole case out to my MP.

I'm sorry for the problems and difficulties of the Notional Grid but they didn't have any interest in my health and welfare at any stage.

C_Mababejive

Ermmm..have you actually put your complaint in writing to National Grid Gas, Gallows Hill,Warwick,CV34 6DA and if so,did they afford you any succour..?

Tangible

Good thought but British Gas chose to intervene in the complaint initially as the whole process was interwoven with a Smart meter replacement programme that British Gas initiated.

Today I've contacted an executive of Notional Grid as they have invited feedback. Over the weekend I'll get some pressure mounting as the person handling the complaint remains silent, After 8 weeks I can take the matter to the Energy Ombudsman, though I'll have my MP involved by then and I'll arrange their work to be completed by my own contractors and sue them for the cost.

I don't wish to sound pathetic but I haven't dared venture outside to view the work they claim to have done and it took some persuasion to make them clear their paraphernalia from the hole they dug. I'm trying to defer my next hospital trip for as long as possible, but I'm getting more fresh air since Notional Grid left me with added ventilation.

All they ever had to do was listen to what I said and follow agreed timetables. This will now cost a fortune and I am no longer going to be easy to satisfy. I'm now investigating their external above ground installation of gas piping which appears to be quite novel when compared with the regulations.

Oh dear

[SIZE=+1]Pipes that go through walls must be sleeved to prevent damage.....[/SIZE]

Unless daylight counts as a sleeve then their installation doesn't comply with regulations.

As their installation is non-compliant I have a feeling I'll probably have my supply disconnected again. :rotfl:

Non-compliant again

[SIZE=+1]The gap (generally quite small) between the sleeve and the wall it is passing through should be sealed.[/SIZE]

On the good side the hole is so large subsidence is unlikely to affect it, but on the downside it's likely to suffer abrasion flapping about in such a large space. (On a humorous note my mother told me that I should have noticed).

My research continues.

Tangible

I own up to being no gas installation expert, but even a fool can recognise that if you have the slightest doubt about the sufficiency of the earthing of a gas system during installation you don't take a punt on the outcome and carry on regardless.

It's reckless to rely on reviewing the situation retrospectively and I seriously doubt the organisational abilities of any authority that demotes safety to a follow up process in an industry dealing with a volatile and explosive energy supply.

In the morning I will be interested to check what arrangements I have been relying on subsequent to the installation process. I won't speculate at this stage but I do wonder how it was earthed at all, unless I was provided with a temporary fix.

We shall see.

C_Mababejive

The whole earthing thing isnt a big deal. Simply put,your meter used to live in its old position. At that point,you will have had an earth equipotential bond to your internal installation.

The meter was moved.


The company moving the meter are required to extend /modify your existing earth so that it is now at the new meter position.

This requires the services of a qualified electrician to undertake the work to the required standard.

They have engaged someone to do this.

In the interim,the installation is still earthed as it is still bonded at the old meter position.

The new work will move the existing bond to the new meter position.

People who elect to have their meters moved outside would have had to pay somewhere between £600-£1000.

jalexa

Tangible wrote: »

I own up to being no gas installation expert...

I sense there is a "but" coming...

... but even a fool can recognise that if you have the slightest doubt about the sufficiency of the earthing of a gas system

There is no requirement for the "gas system" to be "earthed". However, to conform with "wiring regulations" your electrical system requires to be "earthed". How the "earth" is provided varies, but one thing is certain, the "earth" isn't and never was, provided by the gas supply pipe to the premises.

What is required (electrically) is that incoming services, such as water and gas are "bonded" to the household main earthing terminal. Where the water and/or gas is supplied via metallic pipes that is necessary to avoid electrical risk. Where a gas metallic service pipe is replaced by a plastic service pipe, electrical risk arising from rise of earth potential via the gas pipe has all but disappeared. Earthed or unearthed there is no gas hazard, gas contained inside its domestic metallic pipework is incredibly safe.

However, entirely seperately, your houshold metallic pipes in rare circumstances may not be "safe to touch" unless "earthed" and main equipotentially bonded. That is not a gas installation matter but your electrical "Periodic Inspection Report" will identify what electrical work is required to satisfy "wiring regulations".