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Ebay: Keep Calm & Carry On Copyright violation!!

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  • RFW
    RFW Posts: 10,396 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    revpeachy wrote: »
    I'm naive in these matters but surely if one item has to be taken down then all the keep calm and carry on items should be removed too?? There are thousands still listed.
    I think it may depend on what exactly they have had copyrighted. I doubt that they could claim the right to the design, so perhaps they have copyrighted the design on something rather than the design itself.

    "in connection with any of the Goods for which it is registered. " seems to imply that it only applies to certain items. My guess is it could be contested quite easily but not cheaply.
    .
  • mobile48
    mobile48 Posts: 745 Forumite
    edited 11 August 2011 at 1:24AM
    According to this article

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/18/keep-calm-carry-on-poster

    Mike Coop of keepcalmandcarryon.com admits to having tried to trademark the phrase;

    If you look on ebay you came across this user referring to the trademark and if you look at the id history it was previously markycoopie.

    http://members.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=books-bits-and-bobs

    http://contact.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserIdHistory&requested=books-bits-and-bobs&guest=1

    You can still however buy products all over the place only a couple below:

    http://www.iwmshop.org.uk/product/19919/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On_Poster
    http://www.barterbooks.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=428&inc_subcat=1&products_id=32036
  • Pembroke
    Pembroke Posts: 841 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    RFW wrote: »
    I think it may depend on what exactly they have had copyrighted. I doubt that they could claim the right to the design, so perhaps they have copyrighted the design on something rather than the design itself.

    "in connection with any of the Goods for which it is registered. " seems to imply that it only applies to certain items. My guess is it could be contested quite easily but not cheaply.

    In the ebay page quoted by Mobile48 it would appear that it is only the phrase 'Keep Calm and Carry on' that is the trademarked item. I would be very surprised for instance if the design of the crown wasn't subject to government copyright.

    There's also the question of goods made before the CTM was granted. Are they subject to it in which case the Imperial War Museum might be getting a call soon or is it only from the date the CTM came into force? What would happen if you tried to sell an original 1939 copy of the poster for instance?

    I guess it's easier for Ebay to just impose a blanket ban rather than trying to sort out who bought what from where and when. In the case of the OP Next will now have a license to produce that design (or just stop selling it) so they're covered but anyone selling on an unwanted item will have problems.
  • bingo_bango
    bingo_bango Posts: 2,594 Forumite
    Having looked at the OHIM website, it is only the phrase which is trademarked (one of the categories is prophylactics...you have been warned :D) and there is no graphical representation submitted. That would suggest that the crown will not be used in marketing by Mr Coop. He would likely fall foul of the TMA sections on use of armorial designs there.

    There is the option for a previous rights holder to object to their work being trademarked later, but as copyright was owned by the crown , and IPO who issued the TM are an agency of the crown, you can guess what action will be taken.
  • Thank you everyone for your responses and any advice or help is gratefully received. We were selling a few Keep Calm and Carry On posters which we made ourselves and honestly would never have dreamed of infringed copyright so this has come as a bolt out of the blue. I wonder what other words in the English language which are in daily use Mr Coop is going to copyright now. After such a nightmare week when we can see all that's wrong in the country he is just another prime example of greed for greeds sake.
  • barmonkey
    barmonkey Posts: 7,159 Forumite
    i wonder if this copyright covers things made befor they got the copyright, if you try and sell a 2009 stereophonics "keep calm and carry on" t=shirt could they remove that from ebay ?
    WWSD
    (what would Scooby Doo)
  • mobile48
    mobile48 Posts: 745 Forumite
    Keepcalmandcarryon.jpg
  • barmonkey
    barmonkey Posts: 7,159 Forumite
    16349631_500x500_1.jpg
    WWSD
    (what would Scooby Doo)
  • Crowqueen
    Crowqueen Posts: 5,726 Forumite
    barmonkey wrote: »
    i wonder if this copyright covers things made befor they got the copyright, if you try and sell a 2009 stereophonics "keep calm and carry on" t=shirt could they remove that from ebay ?
    One word: licensing.

    If a company wants to use a trademark or a proprietary character, then they usually can pay money to the owners of the marque and get permission to use it.

    Say Barmonkey wanted to make greetings cards featuring Mutley, and soft toys of him (as on their avatar) to sell on eBay for their own profit. They could pay money to Hanna Barbera (or whoever now owns their character rights) and the studio would give them permission to make and sell the cards and toys on eBay. They could easily say "yes, you can make cards, but you can't make toys, because another company owns the rights to make toys and they wouldn't like the competition" or "yes you can make cards and toys, but you can't sell them on eBay because we don't like eBay's reputation as a website marketplace". Since they own the rights, they have the power to restrict the usage of the character or slogan or whatever and even in some cases they assert the right to say where you can sell them (because for many companies eBay represents a huge mound of fake items that depress their own sales and cheapens the image of their brand).

    I think Stereophonics would have done the same, if the slogan was at that time owned in the same way.

    However, now, you need to own the rights to sell the item. In the case of both Next and Stereophonics, they would have bought the rights to the slogan; however, the VERO rep for the slogan would, like many VERO reps on eBay, be concerned about the resale of the bag if the seller does not own the rights. I agree that it's stupid for VERO to go after private sellers selling their own property, but looking at it from their perspective for a moment, they can't know for sure whether this is a real article or a fake bag that the seller has knocked up at home or in a dodgy factory and is selling on for a profit, thereby making money off their trademark without them seeing a penny of it.

    One thing though - don't relist it. Find somewhere else to sell it - a car boot sale, a charity shop, etc. Once eBay have had something pulled, there's very little chance that they will be able to give permission for it to be sold and for it then to be immune from further action by the VERO rep. That could put your account in danger. Whatever you feel about it, it's been pulled for a reason and relisting it in all probability will just get it pulled again. Too many sanctions and that's your account gone.
    "Well, it's election year, Bill, we'd rather people didn't exercise common sense..." - Jed Bartlet, The West Wing, season 4

    Am now Crowqueen, MRes (Law) - on to the PhD!
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