Barclaycard won't help in dispute with car dealer

chattychappy

ifb-online wrote: »

Trading Standards think we have a case and have advised us to go down the path that could mean Small Claims Court action against both Barclaycard and the dealer (the latter is not responding to any correspondence).

This might well be good advice. How much are we talking about?

As noted you will have to prove breach, but this will ultimately be to a judge's satisfaction, not Barclaycard's which seems to be where you are now. (Assuming they decide to defend it.)

In civil courts, it's proof on "balance of probabilities", not the more well-known criminal test of "beyond reasonable doubt".

ifb-online

chattychappy wrote: »

This might well be good advice. How much are we talking about?

As noted you will have to prove breach, but this will ultimately be to a judge's satisfaction, not Barclaycard's which seems to be where you are now. (Assuming they decide to defend it.)

In civil courts, it's proof on "balance of probabilities", not the more well-known criminal test of "beyond reasonable doubt".

The car was purchased for £4850, so under the £5,000 limit for small claims court actions.

We did pay a £150 credit card fee on top of that...

Even being optimistic and supposing we win an eventual small claims action, what next? How useful is that? In perfect world would want to return the car for a refund. I guess the best case scenario is that we would negotiate a settlement as we have had partial use of the car although we have also paid out for repairs, etc.

We have lost faith in the car (there are even more faults more minor that make us wonder if the car is fundamentally jinxed), so at the very least we want to fix the car and then replace it.

I would much rather Barclaycard got off their backside than take it all the way to the small claims court. Barclaycard should actively help us rather than let us dangle, which after all is not what we expected after all the advertising of peace of mind through paying with a Barclaycard...

If you think about it, the built in 'support' for purchases using a credit card is compromised because Barclaycard, for example, by helping us potentially harm themselves. So I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised by their attitude. Sigh.

Janey21

ifb-online wrote: »

The car was purchased for £4850, so under the £5,000 limit for small claims court actions.

We did pay a £150 credit card fee on top of that...

Even being optimistic and supposing we win an eventual small claims action, what next? How useful is that? In perfect world would want to return the car for a refund. I guess the best case scenario is that we would negotiate a settlement as we have had partial use of the car although we have also paid out for repairs, etc.

We have lost faith in the car (there are even more faults more minor that make us wonder if the car is fundamentally jinxed), so at the very least we want to fix the car and then replace it.

I would much rather Barclaycard got off their backside than take it all the way to the small claims court. Barclaycard should actively help us rather than let us dangle, which after all is not what we expected after all the advertising of peace of mind through paying with a Barclaycard...

If you think about it, the built in 'support' for purchases using a credit card is compromised because Barclaycard, for example, by helping us potentially harm themselves. So I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised by their attitude. Sigh.

Hi There
Sorry to hear of the trouble you have had buying your car, my husband and I had a similar experience with a caravan a few years ago so know how you feel.
With regards to Barclaycard, I also had to prove breach of contract when I was misold a service from a company offering advertising online last December, I did manage to eventually prove that this company were in breach of contract but they still refused to offer me a refund so under section 75 Barclaycard were jointly responsible and I therefore got my £175 back, not a lot up to your loss but never the less Barclaycard paid up, my advice is to keep at them and don't ring them, I got so frustrated talking to different agents and explaining myself over and over again, some didn't speak very good english unfortunately so I found myself asking them to repeat what they were saying, the advice consumer direct gave me was very good, put everything into writing and send recorded delivery.
With regards to the small claims court, go after the garage owner, get all the evidence you can get to prove he sold you a vehicle that was 'unfit for purpose' it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to do it and in some cases those on low incomes or in receipt of some benefits can in fact submit a claim free, I think it's around £30 to submit a claim then a further £60 when it goes to court, I may be wrong on those figures but it's not much more, plus I wouldn't do it online but actually go into your local county court.
Whatever route you take, I wish you well and hope you get it sorted out and your money back either from the garage owner or from Barclaycard.
Regards
Janey

ifb-online

Thanks Janey. An update, Trading Standard called this morning after being referred by Consumer Direct. It's confirmed that the wording in the latest letter from Barclaycard that suggests the dealer's warranty period is limited is in fact rubbish, as is the declaration on the bill of sale that the car was sold 'as seen'. It was confirmed that credit card companies simply try to stall you in the hope that you will eventually give up.

The latest advice is to threaten to go to the Financial Ombudsman with a coimplaint under the Unfair Contract Terms Act. This should make Barclaycard take our complaint more seriously. It's free and even if we don't get satisfaction there we can still go to the county court as a last resort.

chattychappy

If you do go to court, you should go after both of them, not just the garage.

Janey21

ifb-online wrote: »

Thanks Janey. An update, Trading Standard called this morning after being referred by Consumer Direct. It's confirmed that the wording in the latest letter from Barclaycard that suggests the dealer's warranty period is limited is in fact rubbish, as is the declaration on the bill of sale that the car was sold 'as seen'. It was confirmed that credit card companies simply try to stall you in the hope that you will eventually give up.

The latest advice is to threaten to go to the Financial Ombudsman with a coimplaint under the Unfair Contract Terms Act. This should make Barclaycard take our complaint more seriously. It's free and even if we don't get satisfaction there we can still go to the county court as a last resort.

Excellent..... I can confirm that Barclaycard do try to stall things they did with us, they just trying to see how serious you are, I would imagine most people give up, but once again I must stress putting it all in writing and starting a paper chase, emails can get lost and phone calls deleted but a recorded delivery letter is much harder to eliminate or deny.
You really do have a case against the car dealer first and foremost and personally I would get together a case against him, if you file a county court judgement against him he will be obligated to reply to it whereas he is simply ignoring you at the moment, all Barclaycard will do ask you to do is prove that the retailer/dealer did not fulfill his obligation to you and so therefore is in breach of contract, a judge in county court can easily determine whether this is the case and can award in your favour of course this is in no way a guarantee that you will still get your money back but armed with a county court judgment in your favour Barclaycard will have no option but to issue a refund.
I spent hours and hours researching this back in January, I had a free 30 minutes with a solicitor and I presented a well documented case with evidence of breach of contract regarding the company involved, even so it wasn't the company that gave me the refund it was Barclaycard themselves because they knew that in a court of law I could prove my case, they also awarded me an extra £20 to cover telephone costs, so I didn't have to seek a county court judgement thankfully, although to be honest I would have sooner took this lousy company to court and sued them for all the upset they caused me, they got away with their scamming and Barclaycard took the hit.
It's not easy to do and does take time (5 months in my case) get legal advice you are entitled to 30 mins free but ask for the right kind of solicitor before you turn up at the free legal clinics, a solicitor in your area will operate this scheme.
Let us all know on here how you get on.
Regards
Janey

Janey21

chattychappy wrote: »

If you do go to court, you should go after both of them, not just the garage.

Hi Chatty
Yes you can do that but will only get your money back from one or the other unless they jointly agree to pay half each, not sure how that will work though so again legal advice is a good option at this stage.
In my case once Barclaycard had issued a refund, Trading Standards then told me that I couldn't actually sue the company as well, after all I had got my money back....I was really disappointed because I would have sooner took this company to court... lol
Janey

ifb-online

Janey21 wrote: »

Hi Chatty
Yes you can do that but will only get your money back from one or the other unless they jointly agree to pay half each, not sure how that will work though so again legal advice is a good option at this stage.
In my case once Barclaycard had issued a refund, Trading Standards then told me that I couldn't actually sue the company as well, after all I had got my money back....I was really disappointed because I would have sooner took this company to court... lol
Janey

Yes, my understanding is that Barclaycard is jointly liable, so if the dealer doesn't respond, Barclaycard will have to meet the award in full and then seek compensation separately from the dealer.

The dealer we're trying to 'deal' with has not responded to any signed-for delivered correspondence since the very beginning. Trading Standards say it is quite common for such businesses to simply fold up and re-emerge with a new company. But that's Barclaycard's problem as their liability does not die with the merchant should they decide to close the business.

I know we'd all like to give the perpetrator of the problem what-for directly, but I'd have thought that Barclaycard's own action against them would be much more feared than any action from a member of the public like me.

chattychappy

Janey21 wrote: »

Hi Chatty
Yes you can do that but will only get your money back from one or the other unless they jointly agree to pay half each, not sure how that will work though so again legal advice is a good option at this stage.
In my case once Barclaycard had issued a refund, Trading Standards then told me that I couldn't actually sue the company as well, after all I had got my money back....I was really disappointed because I would have sooner took this company to court... lol
Janey

Correct. You can sue both, get judgment against both, but can only collect once. If in the course of proceedings they pay up (including court fee you're paid, if claimed), then that's the end of it. Really it's nice if people settle without the hassle of going to court. But sometimes it's only being hit with the claim form that makes them smell the coffee.

Really pleased you got a successful outcome doing it yourself, albeit with a bit of advice. In all kinds of industries there are now ombudsmen and other disputes procedures. Even the courts encourage the use of these. People sometimes forget they can still have the traditional remedy - suing. With internet there's quite alot of advice online, though nothing beats talking to someone who knows what they are doing.

ifb-online wrote: »

Yes, my understanding is that Barclaycard is jointly liable, so if the dealer doesn't respond, Barclaycard will have to meet the award in full and then seek compensation separately from the dealer.

In fact it's not even a case of waiting for dealer non-response. They both stand in parallel from the moment you performed the transaction.

Janey21

chattychappy wrote: »

Correct. You can sue both, get judgment against both, but can only collect once. If in the course of proceedings they pay up (including court fee you're paid, if claimed), then that's the end of it. Really it's nice if people settle without the hassle of going to court. But sometimes it's only being hit with the claim form that makes them smell the coffee.

Really pleased you got a successful outcome doing it yourself, albeit with a bit of advice. In all kinds of industries there are now ombudsmen and other disputes procedures. Even the courts encourage the use of these. People sometimes forget they can still have the traditional remedy - suing. With internet there's quite alot of advice online, though nothing beats talking to someone who knows what they are doing.



In fact it's not even a case of waiting for dealer non-response. They both stand in parallel from the moment you performed the transaction.

Yep I agree with Chatty, in my case Trading Standards up in Middlesborough are going after the company that scammed me as they had many similar complaints around the time that I contacted them, enough to take them to task anyway. So they may get their come uppence after all.
I wish you all the best in doing whatever you decide to do but please let us all know how you get on.
Regards
Janey