Credit Crunch Return ???

Rainy-Days

You know what it all comes down to greed for money and the lust that drives the ever more to do insatiable things to get more and more of it. When is enough really enough?

You are right Ceridwen, we could see which way the wind was blowing for a long time. The amount of us who complained that every ruddy time we went food shopping something had gone up. The last thing I had a moan about was Pedigree dog food it had jumped from £1.35 a can to £1.56 in the space of two weeks! Some on here were even marking on the tins how much they had paid so that they could keep track of the price rises. Thats just the tip of it though. We have the supermarkets who are kidding us lot that they are "protecting" us from the price hikes! They must think we are daft!

I was listening to a commentator who works for Nomura and he said it is going to get worse before it will get better and he put a figure of around two to five years before we could see the light!

Mind you having said all that I wonder what the bets will be for bumper bonuses being paid out in the city come Christmas time - multi million pound bonuses and a possible stock market hike back up to 6300 mark - now call me cynical!

America sneezes and the rest of us catch a cold! Amercia has influenza and the rest of us has something allot worse like Cholera maybe!

Butterfly_Brain

We are lucky enough not to have any debt like credit cards, loans or overdrafts but we do have a mortgage, which is tiny by today's standards.
But the markets are in free fall and that is going to affect everyone with pensions. I have worked out that by the time I reach retirement age my pension isn't going to be worth the paper it is written on, due to the way that inflation is rising.
I remember the stagflation in the 70's and how bad it was and how hard it was to find work and it is even harder to find work now.
The trouble is that the 80's bred greedy and jumped up people who were working class but thought that they could live like they were kings on cheap credit supplied by greedier banks who knew that they were too big to fail.
So Occams/razor I will stock up on things and squirrel as much money as I can away, because I have seen it all before and know how bad it can get.

This article makes for sobering reading http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2022993/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-Capitalism-crisis-warning-history-Eighty-years-ago-banking-collapse-devastated-Europe-triggering-war-Today-faith-free-markets-faltering-again.html

Lizling

Rainy-Days wrote: »

I was listening to a commentator who works for Nomura and he said it is going to get worse before it will get better and he put a figure of around two to five years before we could see the light!

I can't see things getting much better until

-the Eurozone either splits up leaving only a few core countries or becomes much more politically harmonized;

-the American politicians become willing to have reasonable negotiations with each other instead of risking default rather than give an inch;

-and the banking sector gets brought back down to earth, with an end to ridiculous incentives for taking crazy risks and 'too big to fail' banks.

As others have said, we still haven't fixed what went wrong last time.

tl:dr - 2 years, no chance! Think I'd stock up a little too if I had the space.

ceridwen

That article is disturbing reading and I think its about time someone said what that commentator is saying. I've been steadily feeling more and more frustrated at having this described as a "recession" - implication being "Its okay folks - it wont last long - and then it will be back to Growth as normal". How long has it been clear for that we are heading back to the 1930s at warp speed?

This time we have several different factors in play:

PLUS POINTS:

- maybe a tad more of the Welfare State support than we had then

- control over our fertility (which is a plus point - as we can prevent ourselves being dragged into poverty by "falling for" more children than we can support). My fathers' parents were dragged down into poverty early last century (even though Grandpa earned a decent salary) because there was no effective way of preventing themselves having more children than they could afford and Mother Nature ensured that they had a large family because of that lack of control over the matter. It was very clear that this was far from unusual when one reads books by social commentators (Rowntree and the like) from the last couple of centuries. In those books one factor became very clear - and that was the huge proportion of the population that didnt stand a chance because of the sheer number of "mouths to feed" they found themselves having. People with 0-2 children were a LOT better off and able to provide for the ones they had than those that ended up having loads of children perforce. My father was aware of the circumstances he had been born into as a child - as he compared himself to children from smaller families.

- much better access to information to be able to see and understand what is happening and keep in touch with each other

MINUS POINTS:
- Many more people than there were - courtesy of increasing overpopulation

- Peak Oil

esmf73

Thats it - I'm going to get OH to pull down the useless small cupboard in the garage and put up shelves then I can stock up on tinned food and see what I have properly. I think that this is sobering reading and will eventually mean that as a country we go back to how things were during / after the war - home grown things, a simpler life and eating primarily what is grown in the UK. Better order my raised beds now then!! Thanks for the heads up xx

Butterfly_Brain

ceridwen wrote: »

That article is disturbing reading and I think its about time someone said what that commentator is saying. I've been steadily feeling more and more frustrated at having this described as a "recession" - implication being "Its okay folks - it wont last long - and then it will be back to Growth as normal". How long has it been clear for that we are heading back to the 1930s at warp speed?

This time we have several different factors in play:

PLUS POINTS:

- maybe a tad more of the Welfare State support than we had then
Not for much longer if the Con-dems have their way

- control over our fertility (which is a plus point - as we can prevent ourselves being dragged into poverty by "falling for" more children than we can support). My fathers' parents were dragged down into poverty early last century (even though Grandpa earned a decent salary) because there was no effective way of preventing themselves having more children than they could afford and Mother Nature ensured that they had a large family because of that lack of control over the matter. It was very clear that this was far from unusual when one reads books by social commentators (Rowntree and the like) from the last couple of centuries. In those books one factor became very clear - and that was the huge proportion of the population that didnt stand a chance because of the sheer number of "mouths to feed" they found themselves having. People with 0-2 children were a LOT better off and able to provide for the ones they had than those that ended up having loads of children perforce. My father was aware of the circumstances he had been born into as a child - as he compared himself to children from smaller families.

- much better access to information to be able to see and understand what is happening and keep in touch with each other

MINUS POINTS:
- Many more people than there were - courtesy of increasing overpopulation.
Definitely agree with you on that point, this small island can't take anymore and should close it's doors, especially to Eastern European countries.
We should limit all benefits to those born in this country and that includes free health care and schooling.

- Peak Oil

The trouble is the Politicians don't want to put their necks out and too many rich business men (including farmers) want cheap slave labour from abroad

ceridwen

In fairness - overpopulation is a problem affecting most of the world and I am referring to the world as a whole (and not just Britain) - though I believe Britain is either the most overpopulated or second most overpopulated country in the world???

I'm in the 75% or so of British people who believe immigration must be severely restricted - as we literally dont have the room for any more people.

That isnt the only thing thats causing our huge overpopulation - as we now have a problem that wasnt there in 1930s Mark I and that is, to some extent, having too many children perforce back then (because of lack of effective contraception, etc) has been replaced for a few people by having too many unwanted children because they are doing so as a "cash crop" (ie in order to generate State welfare benefits for themselves). Those who had too many children back then were doing so because they couldnt prevent it - those who are doing so now are often doing it for all the wrong reasons (ie that "cash crop" aspect).

As for immigrants who are already here (PROVIDED they are here legally/officially) then they have the same rights to access to State healthcare and education as we do - so, as long as they respect "When in Rome live as the Romans do" and dont try and change OUR society for the worse to fit the way their own society is, then thats just the way it is.

Rainy-Days

I think this is it, double dip recession is on the cards and here is the link to it:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2022971/Double-dip-cards-UK-economy-peril-world-crisis-say-ministers.html

I just feel we are all tiny little cogs in this big bloody power plant of power and us 'prols' are being used as pawns in their financial games. We are on holiday for two weeks in September our first for three years and it is Cornwall - so we are going to make the most of that and enjoy it because when this hideous recession kicks in there won't be dddly in life to smile about it will be like being chuffin hamsters on a wheel forever going round and round trying to plod on through life!

And one final thing why are us British expected to bail out Eurozone debts - like Greece - when we are not even part of the Euro. Why should we have to keep on stumping up all the time for problems that are not even of our makiing :mad:

Edited to say that if you can stock up on allot of essential stuff from Aldi and Lidl, their tinned and chopped tomatoes are fine as well as their tomato puree which is about 8 pence cheaper a tube than the supermarkets. I might think about getting the freezer cleaned out earlier than I had previously considered as well (I usually do it in September and stock up at the butchers).

Butterfly_Brain

More worrying news this morning is that the US has lost its AAA rating .........so that will have a knock on effect on all of us ...The US gets a cold the rest of the world gets pneumonia :eek:

Going4TheDream

Butterfly_Brain wrote: »

More worrying news this morning is that the US has lost its AAA rating .........so that will have a knock on effect on all of us ...The US gets a cold the rest of the world gets pneumonia :eek:

Some papers are playing this down however the scary thing is that this means that their debt becomes more expensive and any future refinancing of their debt, and the UK is the 3rd biggest holder of US bonds after China and Japan, I am no financial eagle beagle but its seems to say to me that if they default then our institutions that have lent money via buying the bonds will make a loss, then there will no doubt be jobs cuts forcing more people out of work, (and it will be likely front line staff), meaning more government spending in benefits and less money in the economy through spending of wages etc, pension values deceasing etc.... why is it the little people suffer so much for the error of those in power, we have seen higher prices in fuel bills/petrol and food, lower wages, decline in pension values, higher retirement age and very little growth in the economy. There has to be better way than running the world on imaginary money and large scale debt?