FTSE100 falling fast!

LydiaJ

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

The German economy is strong because the export more than they import, so we are in agreement.

But we must dicriminate between true wealth creation (for the nation) and 'activity'. Economic 'activity' alone is never 'bad' but it simply creates no extra wealth. If you don't believe me, then simply create huge extra financial 'activity' by knitting your next door neighbour's jumpers while he makes your sandwiches. Economic activity is much enhanced by this 'trade' but not a single person is more wealthy or enriched.

Well, they aren't any better off than if they both made their own jumpers and sandwiches. However, they are warmer and better fed than they would be if they both sat on their backsides doing nothing.

kabayiri

I don't think a 'successful financial city economy' always aligns with a healthy wider economy.

The city can generate good return for its' investment clients by encouraging a product based company to shift it's manufacturing base overseas, for example. It's not usually this direct / obvious, but witness how a share price rises when a company announces cutbacks.

The local economy where the company is based may suffer as a consequence of these actions.

It's like the drivers of each 'party' are at odds.

michaels

I agree and think there is an additional factor, the financial centre with its mega wages sucks in all the talent which might otherwise go in to industry (most rocket scientists are quants not aero-engineers) and also drives a get rich quick culture rather than an entrepreneurial hard work over the years.

kabayiri wrote: »

I don't think a 'successful financial city economy' always aligns with a healthy wider economy.

The city can generate good return for its' investment clients by encouraging a product based company to shift it's manufacturing base overseas, for example. It's not usually this direct / obvious, but witness how a share price rises when a company announces cutbacks.

The local economy where the company is based may suffer as a consequence of these actions.

It's like the drivers of each 'party' are at odds.

Graham_Devon

Rising just as fast as it fell it seems today.

Lot of it seems to be on hopes of QE3. Again.

Old_Slaphead

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Rising just as fast as it fell it seems today.

Lot of it seems to be on hopes of QE3. Again.

Not quite managed a +5% in a day though (yet)

More free money for the bankers

Graham_Devon

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Not quite managed a +5% in a day though (yet)

More free money for the bankers

Never know whats going to happen next at the moment!

I liked the BBC news headline Monday (or was it yesterday!?) where they had "oil in freefall" due to the libya situation.

By 4pm the same day, oil was higher than it started the day!

sabretoothtigger

ess0two wrote: »

Essar have just bought us out,ex Shell Stanlow refinery.

They certainly gave a good speech wrt investment etc,proof will be in the pudding so to speak.

They have a large refinery in India,currently averaging 7-8$ per barrel profit,we are somewhere 3-4$ with Shell.Although different departments creamed most of the profit off.

I can see them importing large volumes of diesel and jet fuel from India,the UK struggles with these products,nearly all UK refineries are heavily biased to petrol production.

Most UK refineries require investment,and were designed on North sea easy crudes.

ESSAR Shares been horrible but was holding well today on decent volume. I think 180 is a good target if it can hold above here now
200 and 250 is where alot of people will sell naturally but news and annual reports along the way create new waves

Maybe if dollar were strong to which we are tied.

We ain't tied...

We are tied in trade to dollar worth. If that drops alot so do we. Also we are one of the largest holders of USA debt

ess0two

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

ESSAR Shares been horrible but was holding well today on decent volume. I think 180 is a good target if it can hold above here now
200 and 250 is where alot of people will sell naturally but news and annual reports along the way create new waves





We are tied in trade to dollar worth. If that drops alot so do we. Also we are one of the largest holders of USA debt

I've just started a share option this month,also got a few k tied up that i bought at 280p.

Generali

LydiaJ wrote: »

Well, they aren't any better off than if they both made their own jumpers and sandwiches. However, they are warmer and better fed than they would be if they both sat on their backsides doing nothing.

To take the analogy a step further, think about why they'd be making sandwiches or knitting jumpers. If the sandwich maker has invested in a toasted sandwich maker and the knitter is particularly skilled then they can trade meaning one gets a nice cheese and ham toastie rather than a limp marmite one and sandwich bloke ends up with a better jumper without having to learn to knit. By specializing, both end up richer and that is the beautiful thing about capitalism.

pqrdef

Generali wrote: »

To take the analogy a step further, think about why they'd be making sandwiches or knitting jumpers. If the sandwich maker has invested in a toasted sandwich maker and the knitter is particularly skilled then they can trade meaning one gets a nice cheese and ham toastie rather than a limp marmite one and sandwich bloke ends up with a better jumper without having to learn to knit. By specializing, both end up richer and that is the beautiful thing about capitalism.

The moral of the tale is that our economic statistics ignore the value of what we do for ourselves.

And since we do less for ourselves than ever before, our economy hasn't been growing as fast as we think.