My puppy completely ignores the clicker ?

Shakethedisease

Hi all ! ( warning long post )

Been lurking here on this forum for the last month or so since we reserved our choc labrador girl. We brought her home a week ago. She isn't being crate trained or anything like that ( just set up a 'play pen' in our bedroom and take her out when she lets us know she needs to pee or poo). I've had dogs before but both were rescues and back in the days 10 or so years ago, when you just fed them chum with a few biscuits thrown in, some scraps, the odd kit-kat and let them off the lead hoping and shouting their name till they came back.

Boy things seem to have changed these days regarding training, food and keeping them in before vacc's etc.

Anyway, to the point.. After 2 or 3 days settling in, I've taught her to 'sit' and 'lie down' and she's just starting to get 'down' when something tasty is left on the coffee table, usually by one of my kids ( I reward her when she does get down). Just using treats in my hand and a lot of praise really. I watched and have read a lot about clicker training, some of the videos on Youtube look so easy and there's so much great stuff said about the whole consistency of the method, I thought I'd give it a try.

So I duly bought a kit and with no distractions sat Lexie down and 'clicked - reward' ..clicked -reward.. for about 5 mins ( didn't want to bore or stress her ). Then I waited till she looked away, looking for a response to the clicker.. nothing. So I repeated a few hours later, same response.. in fact she seemed to have worked out that the treats were in the bag hanging at my waist, and responded far more to the rustling noise I made putting my hand in to GET the treat lol ! She also kept her eyes on the bag far more than on me unless I held the treat up to my face. By which time the clicker seemed irrelevant. I clicked and gave anyway. If I hold the treats in my hand she knows they are there as well, even if I then hide them behind my back.. she keeps trying to go there while I'm valiantly trying to click away !!!

I tried again today. Same thing. She's just not getting the whole 'charging the clicker' thing or mabye it's me that's not ? All the puppies on youtube seem to be responding the click after their first session. Soooo, should I just give up now and return to what I was doing before with just generally rewarding good behaviour ( sit, lie down, down ) and build on that ? Or persevere a bit more ?

I'm relaxed about the whole thing and not frustrated with her at all, we all love her to bits. But I do want her to be a little more biddible than our last beloved boy, who we all adored. But he begged for food constantly, sometimes felt like he was dislocating my arm on walks and was totally crap at recall. He managed to 'lose' me in the dark one night when there was another dog around.. and ran home. He got hit by a car outside our front door.. and broke our hearts.:( I can now see, 8 years later, that a little bit of training would have gone a long way with him. So I'd really like to start this little one off on the right path.

But, seems that clicker training may not be for her ? Any opinions greatly recieved. I've searched all over and cannot find any info at all on puppy's that don't really respond well at first to clicker training, only rave reviews on those who do. She seems to prefer 'rustling in the bag for a treat' training.. Should I just forget about it ?

dizziblonde

Takes longer to charge the clicker than you'd think - I did it with my first dog by feeding him bits of his kibble and clicking. You know you've got the "charge" right when their mouths start to drool at the click... I wouldn't be looking for a response as of yet to the click. Youtube and videos inevitably speed the process up (who would want to watch days of click-treat click-treat). All the clicker is in the end is a marker for the instant something good goes on - because otherwise by the time you've exploded yourself with joy and done all the good girls, found the treat to give it to her - she's no longer in a nice sit and has bitten the postman's arm off and thinks she's getting the treat for that instead! It means that if you're struggling to get a "sit" for example - you can do it in stages as her bum gets lower and lower towards the floor - it's a precision IOU for a treat basically.

If you're looking at youtube vids - get onto kikopup's channel - hers are utterly fantastic and there are tonnes of them. There's one on there about "before you start training with food" where she goes through training the dogs not to obsess about the treat bag on your waist which is a good one to start with, and the one she's got on stays also goes through shaping sit/down/stand fairly well (I forget the titles and I'm just about to head out of the house so I can't really get you the exact links now)... warning - you CAN kill hours watching them all!

Olokia

Shakethedisease wrote: »

the odd kit-kat

I don't know about training sorry but when you say kit-kat you don't mean the chocolate bar do you?

You do know that chocolate can kill dogs as they cannot metabolize theobromine don't you? Sorry if you already know this...

Shakethedisease

Back when I got my first rescue dog no-one thought twice about giving dogs chocolate and to be honest, it didn't seem to do them any harm. My grampa's old dog got half a mars bar every day as a treat ! :eek: However, yes, I do know the current reccomendations regarding chocolate and dogs. So don't worry, no kit-kats for her.:)

If you're looking at youtube vids - get onto kikopup's channel - hers are utterly fantastic and there are tonnes of them. There's one on there about "before you start training with food" where she goes through training the dogs not to obsess about the treat bag on your waist which is a good one to start with, and the one she's got on stays also goes through shaping sit/down/stand fairly well (I forget the titles and I'm just about to head out of the house so I can't really get you the exact links now)... warning - you CAN kill hours watching them all!

I have had a look at a few of kikopups vids. She does a fantastic job ! But seem to have missed the 'before you start training with food' one. I shall go and look it up, and the other one you recommended, thank you very much for that. Hopefully she'll stop being so fixated on the bag at my waist and my hand dipping in for those treats !

Chakani

I haven't used a clicker with dogs, but I have with horses, and I'm wondering whether the rustling in the bag is "interrupting", for want of a better word, the connection between click and treat? Have you tried just keeping a few bits of kibble (or higher value food if the dog isn't that motivated by kibble) in your hand, so that the process goes click-treat, rather than click-rustle-treat?

Also, labs are intelligent animals, and sometimes intelligent animals learn things you hadn't intended to teach them - like you click when they look away, for example. I'm not saying this is definitely what she is doing, of course, but when my current horse was a youngster, she accidentally connected looking away from me with getting a treat (I was trying to teach her not to be snatchy) - and she started turning her head round and putting it on her shoulder anticipating a treat - because I had slightly mistimed the click!

Olokia - I think the OP may have been being a little tongue in cheek about the kitkats

Shakethedisease

I'm wondering whether the rustling in the bag is "interrupting", for want of a better word, the connection between click and treat?

I think you may have hit it exactly right. I 'think' I made a breakthrough tonight. Instead of sitting on the floor with her, with the treatbag rustling or my hand full of treats about 30cm away from her. I filled the bag with some 'high value' little bits of cooked chicked ( she loves it )... and just casually wandered about the lounge, the kitchen and outside with her closely following me or vice versa. But I kept it all really casual and I clicked and gave the treat randomly, but immediately for about 10 minutes. Towards the end, when we were outside in the garden she was getting a little bit distracted by other things ( my kids playing and hubby talking over the fence to a neighbour ).. she was starting to react to the click, even when she was looking at something else, by pricking her ears up and looking round at me. But I left it there as 10 mins is enough I think.

Will try the same tomorrow in a few 5 minute sessions and see how it goes. But it's looking a lot more promising ! Thanks so much for the advice.:)

ps yes, I was being a little tongue in cheek about the kitkats.

Olokia

Shakethedisease wrote: »

ps yes, I was being a little tongue in cheek about the kitkats.

I thought you might be but I wasn't sure so I thought it was better to mention it.

Shakethedisease

Pleased to report, she's now coming running, from wherever she is, when she hears the clicker. While she did learn 'sit' and 'lie down' beforehand.. it took me just a few 5 min sessions ( if that ) with the clicker to teach her to 'watch me', 'shake paws' and 'down' from the coffee table. Best thing is, that the kids can get involved training her now too. Before she'd only listen to me saying 'sit' etc. and they've been loving the 'one to one' of having 5 mins with the clicker, Lexie and all the fun ! ( they still leave picking up the poop to me though ).

Next will be 'leave it', my cardigan is in tatters lol !, and 'come here'. She got her 2nd set of jabs yesterday so it's off to the big wide world for her ( well, over the park at our back door to start with anyway ).

Thanks for all the advice and stuff I should watch, I was beginning to think that the clicker thing was all tosh but the replies here made me persevere a bit longer. Thanks all !:T

WolfSong2000

glad to hear she's responding - one thing I would say is it's not always advisable to use the "down" command to mean gett off/down from things, as well as meaning "lie down". Can confuse some dogs...I tend to differentiate by using the word "off" (as in "get off") rather than down. Hope that helps Also, not sure if you're aware, but chocolate labs are particularly prone to skin issues and allergies, so if these start appearing, look closely at the food you're feeding her as this can be the culprit!

dizziblonde

If she's a soft thing chewer (my greyhound's one - sofa cushions and my clothes being a nice target) - have you thought about getting an old teddy (preferably one with sewn eyes rather than buttons if you get what I mean) for her to play with? The hound will spend hours chucking her teddy up in the air and chasing it - before throwing him onto the sofa and then popping up there to fall asleep cuddling it.

I use "off" for "gerroff the blooming sofa so I can sit down you silly mutt" as opposed to "down" for lie down.

Katiehound

Glad the clicker training is going well- hey but you have to be so on the ball to click at the exact moment! (otherwise- been there done it- you reward for not quite what was wanted!!)
One trainer always used so say to group- "would you work for a penny??"- ie mundane stuff so I always train with food that doesn't appear at doggy meal times. Diced cheese, cold chicken (even the skin!) homemade liver flapjack and diced up cold sausage- cheapest freezer shop variety. My dogs adore tinned hot dog sausages but they seem to have shot up in price.
I have a hound who hurtles off down an empty beach but the call of 'sweeties' or 'chickchick' soon has her swerving into a recall!

you can use the word 'Good' - very short and brief for training- and in the early stages always treat after the word.

As others have said- I use 'down' to lay down and 'off' to get off furniture or stop jumping up at a person. As long as you always use the same word it doesn't really matter!!

have lots of fun with your new buddy