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Vehicle use charges

I'm a maintenance technician for a company that maintains properties throughout London. The company like many feeling the pinch have recently introduced some changes. One of which is to begin charging the technicians 15p a mile to travel in the company supplied van between home and work. We are talking 'vans' full of tools and equipment and not 'cars'.

I'm aware that the taxman can tax the supply and use of a vehicle for personal use but this is a separate matter as my company does not allow personal use of the company van outside working hours and therefore we pay no tax on the vehicle related to that, though the company is now using this angle to justify this new charge saying that the journey from and to home constitutes personal use.

Are they within their rights or not? To further complicate the issue, although all technicians once used to travel to the office each day to collect their job paperwork we now work with PDAs which means that we now rarely need to visit the office and can travel direct to out first job of the day wherever that may be.

Be grateful for any advice on this.
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Comments

  • paddedjohn
    paddedjohn Posts: 7,512 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    do you have the option of leaving the van at work and collecting it every morning? if not tell them to whistle, if you do then leave it there and commute in some other way, id like to bet it will cost more than 15p/mile.
    Be Alert..........Britain needs lerts.
  • Hammyman
    Hammyman Posts: 9,913 Forumite
    Seconded. I run a diesel car that I get 54MPG out of. It costs me 12p per mile just for fuel.
  • mike_L
    mike_L Posts: 154 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    paddedjohn wrote: »
    do you have the option of leaving the van at work and collecting it every morning? if not tell them to whistle, if you do then leave it there and commute in some other way, id like to bet it will cost more than 15p/mile.


    Yes we can leave the van at the office and commute there each day but they (and us) don't want that. That was one of the main reasons for introducing PDAs, it's a huge advantage for them not to have 80 technicians and vans coming to the office every day to collect and return paperwork, but instead receive jobs via the PDA and travel direct to the first job of the day. Unless we have specific reason to visit the office (north London) there's no reason for us to go there.

    Further, some technicians live and work in the east end and would have to travel four times the distance to get to the office (to avoid the mileage charge) than to their first job of the day as we are matrixed (I think that's the word) we are allocated jobs nearest to where we live specifically to save fuel/time.

    Also if we do receive a personal advantage/use of the company van (to and from work only) then shouldn't this involve the taxman? I have worked for companies where use of the company van was allowed and we were taxed accordingly via our tax codes on this.
  • But driving to and from work isn't "personal" use. It's work-related use. Are you supposed to sleep over in the back of the van at the end of the day??! Just ridiculous.
    DMP Mutual Support Thread member 244
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    Joined Slimming World 02/12/13. Loss so far = 60lb in 28 weeks :j 18lb to go :o
  • mike_L
    mike_L Posts: 154 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 3 August 2011 at 9:21PM
    But driving to and from work isn't "personal" use. It's work-related use. Are you supposed to sleep over in the back of the van at the end of the day??! Just ridiculous.

    Thanks, the term 'work related' makes sense but I suspect this can get complicated. If we were allowed use of the van 'outside' working hours then that would be 'personel' use but we're not allowed any use other than to and from work.

    However the company have obviously now decided that to and from work is now 'personel' use but as you point out this is not personal use in the sense that most people would accept it.

    You say 'work related' as though it's an acknowledged term and that you have some knowledge of this area?
  • mike_L wrote: »
    Thanks, the term 'work related' makes sense but I suspect this can get complicated. If we were allowed use of the van 'outside' working hours then that would be 'personel' use but we're not allowed any use other than to and from work.

    However the company have obviously now decided that to and from work is now 'personel' use but as you point out this is not personal use in the sense that most people would accept it.

    You say 'work related' as though it's an acknowledged term and that you have some knowledge of this area?

    Only in as much as my OH works in a trade where he has a van and when he's used a company van it has always been on the understanding that it can be driven to or from work, but not for social or domestic purposes. I do work for a law firm, but sadly only as a secretary and not in this field! ;) However, there MUST be legislation setting out a proper definition of use of work vehicles to get to and from the place of employment. There will be a definition of reasonable use and I don't believe for a second that driving to and from work falls outside that definition, especially when you have tools, etc, to transport. I'm going to have a little investigation tomorrow and see what I can find ;)
    DMP Mutual Support Thread member 244
    Quit smoking 13/05/2013
    Joined Slimming World 02/12/13. Loss so far = 60lb in 28 weeks :j 18lb to go :o
  • skintandscared_2
    skintandscared_2 Posts: 2,781 Forumite
    edited 3 August 2011 at 11:07PM
    As you said in your initial post:

    "I'm aware that the taxman can tax the supply and use of a vehicle for personal use but this is a separate matter as my company does not allow personal use of the company van outside working hours and therefore we pay no tax on the vehicle related to that, though the company is now using this angle to justify this new charge saying that the journey from and to home constitutes personal use."

    As you rightly say, since April 2005, HMRC have decided that an employee will only be liable to pay tax on the benefit of a company car/van for PERSONAL use, i.e.

    "only if you actually use it for private journeys other than commuting"

    So they actually SPECIFY that commuting is not taxable, therefore not personal use.... ;)

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vans/employee-guidance.htm
    DMP Mutual Support Thread member 244
    Quit smoking 13/05/2013
    Joined Slimming World 02/12/13. Loss so far = 60lb in 28 weeks :j 18lb to go :o
  • LilacPixie
    LilacPixie Posts: 8,052 Forumite
    I would imagine the company are coming from the 'angle' they are effectively allowing you to use their vans ad fuel for your work commute. I would imagine your commute to work is personal use.

    If you have incidental use of a company van IE driving it between home and work will not involve a benefit in kind charge but your employer could still class it as personal use AFAIK
    MF aim 10th December 2020 :j:eek:
    MFW 2012 no86 OP 0/2000 :D
  • k3lvc
    k3lvc Posts: 4,174 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    For clarity please where is the place of work they want to charge you from/to ?

    If you have a PDA and are effectively home based then that is your place of work (i.e. zero commute/zero charge) - all client/call travel is just that ?
  • LilacPixie
    LilacPixie Posts: 8,052 Forumite
    As you said in your initial post:

    "I'm aware that the taxman can tax the supply and use of a vehicle for personal use but this is a separate matter as my company does not allow personal use of the company van outside working hours and therefore we pay no tax on the vehicle related to that, though the company is now using this angle to justify this new charge saying that the journey from and to home constitutes personal use."

    As you rightly say, since April 2005, HMRC have decided that an employee will only be liable to pay tax on the benefit of a company car/van for PERSONAL use, i.e.

    "only if you actually use it for private journeys other than commuting"

    So they actually SPECIFY that commuting is not taxable, therefore not personal use.... ;)

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vans/employee-guidance.htm

    Sorry you are wrong. The HMRC clearly state if the only Personal use is commuting then BIK is not charged they don't say commuting is not personal use
    MF aim 10th December 2020 :j:eek:
    MFW 2012 no86 OP 0/2000 :D
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