Dentist - hooked with NHS, slapped with private for hygienist

Toothsmith

wearside wrote: »

As the worlds worst Dental Patient who at the grand age of 61 has NEVER visited the denstist alone, not even for a check up:eek:, I always refuse to see a Hygenist as this could cause me pain. Last check up in August 2010 I was told that I needed a filling for a chipped tooth. As this has never bothered me, I refused. I am due my next check up in two weeks. I now have two chipped teeth, neither of which hurt me. No doubt I will be told I need two filling and a visit to the Hygenist, both of which I will decline.

As above.

Of course you will be told this, as it's what the dentist finds when he examins your mouth.

It is then up to you to accept the advice you've paid for, or ignore it.

If the dentist just said " That's fine Mr Wearside - everything is just tickety-boo in there!"

and then you had a tooth flare up the very next week/month/year, and the dentist you saw with the emergency told you that there was all sorts of problems going on in there, you would be rightly miffed with dentist 1, and could probably get a lot of money out of him.

Frankly, I'm surprised you waste the time and money, not to mention putting yourself through all the stress of going to the dentist if you're just going to ignore any advice you get there.

brook2jack

" never ment to imply they HAD to do it, but my practise uses newly qualified Dentists always Asian, and are happy to oblige. They only appear to do 1 year, then they go, presumably to more profitable climes." quote Roddydogs.


No the dentists you see are foundation year dentists. They have to do one year in a training practice in order to work in the NHS. Most PCTs will not then give them a contract to stay in the practice even if they and the practice wanted them to, so they leave after a year to be replaced by another foundation year dentist whose contract is funded seperately. This has caused massive problems for training practices who are unable to offer contracts to retain dentists and give stable dental care and patients are on a merry go round of constantly changing dentists.

very few private practices would employ a foundation year plus one dentist so your dentists will have gone to another NHS practice where the PCT will provide a contract , not more profitable climes, though with a debt of £40,000 at the moment and more as tuition fees (around £80,000 projected) increase you couldn't blame them .

Money_saving_Martyn

So, as I got straight 2s for my BPE - I should have been offered more than 5 mins of scraping my lower front teeth on the NHS?

Thanks to all who have replied.

welshdent

if you have BPEs of 2 then you are entitled to the removal of the calculus under the terms of the NHS. How long that takes is dependent on how long the dentist feels they need. I cant really say more than that having not examined you

Toothsmith

Money_saving_Martyn wrote: »

So, as I got straight 2s for my BPE - I should have been offered more than 5 mins of scraping my lower front teeth on the NHS?

Thanks to all who have replied.

Well, as a dentist who has refused to have anything to do with the NHS for 5 years (And hasn't had much to do with them for 13) - you won't trust my opinion!

The NHS' opinion there is that 2s all round is just a build up of tartar, and so not an immediate health problem.

It doesn't become a health problem until you are getting 3s - which mean boney destruction is going on and the support of your teeth is being lost. Therefore, it's quite possible an NHS dentist will be obliged not to offer a clean up on the NHS.

With me, a patient scoring 2s all over the place will be booked one or even two apointments with the hygienist.

The BPE score (which is what all those numbers are) is not a very accurate method of predicting gum disease, and gum recession can still be going on even if there are no pockets.

I like my patients to have as cleaner teeth as possible, and I like them to be instructed by the hygienists in how to keep them that way by themselves as much as possible.

One of the biggest differences I have noticed since I went private and actually started looking after people in the way I was trained to, rather than by a set of arbitary rules that goverened what the state would pay for and what it wouldn't, was the decrease in problems that my patients had, and the amount of emergency appointments I was getting.

Having a set of patients who accept what I say, have the treatments prescribed to them, and not having to have the discussons about what part of it is available via the state and which bits they'll have to pay me extra for is so much better both for me and for them.

So yes - with a mouthful of 2s, your teeth aren't going to fall out tomorrow - so you don't NEED a clean up.

If you want your teeth to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible, then 'd go and see the hygienist. Regularly.

Toothsmith

I seem to disagree with Welshdent!

He's still in the system, so probably knows it better than I do - so I'd take his advice there rather than mine!

brook2jack

But you don't disagree with the NHS. The audit commission found little health benefit from scale and polishing , because people don't change their cleaning and flossing habits so they only have clean teeth for 72 hours before tartar reforms. Education and the desire to change are what's key but the nhs does not pay for people to talk so hygienists are not free to do what they should which is educate people.

The difference with most private patients is not necessarily that they are scaled more regularly but that dentists and hygienists have more time to talk and explain what people have to do themselves to keep healthy. Also ,it must be said, that paying more for treatment gives you a bigger incentive to make the changes necessary to stop tartar building up.

welshdent

Toothsmith wrote: »

I seem to disagree with Welshdent!

He's still in the system, so probably knows it better than I do - so I'd take his advice there rather than mine!

But I would PREFER to work like you LOL! I much prefer the approach you work towards but I also hate seeing calculus so always like to remove the stuff.

Money_saving_Martyn

Toothsmith wrote: »

Well, as a dentist who has refused to have anything to do with the NHS for 5 years (And hasn't had much to do with them for 13) - you won't trust my opinion!

I appreciate your opinion as a professional and I very much appreciate your clear explanation.

What is difficult as a none specialist is knowing what is needed, what would be good, and what is just boosting profits so you can have a nice shiney Bentley.

I wouldn't expect to go to the doctor and be told "You could have some cream for the rash, but it'll cost you - and you'll have to visit a dermatologist twice to have explained how to wash your arms properly and have them rubbed with a brick etc etc - under the NHS you have to wait until your arm drops off". Denistry seems more flexible...

brook2jack

Money_saving_Martyn wrote: »

I appreciate your opinion as a professional and I very much appreciate your clear explanation.

What is difficult as a none specialist is knowing what is needed, what would be good, and what is just boosting profits so you can have a nice shiney Bentley.

I wouldn't expect to go to the doctor and be told "You could have some cream for the rash, but it'll cost you - and you'll have to visit a dermatologist twice to have explained how to wash your arms properly and have them rubbed with a brick etc etc - under the NHS you have to wait until your arm drops off". Denistry seems more flexible...

Well I'll just stop waxing the Ferrari to answer. HM government wanted to simplify and reduce the amounts of treatment provided under the NHS contract. Instead of coming clean and admitting that not all treatments are available they leave dentists to carry the can and try to explain government rationing. Unfortunately some dentists do exploit the system but the vast majority are trying their best but run the gamut of constant suspicion which is very wearing.

There is no universal coverage for all dental problems and it is an indication of the level of contempt that dental health is held in that eg in the NHS "dental pain no matter how severe is not classed as an emergency" so PCTs do not have to fund emergency dental units out of very restricted hours. Imagine breaking a leg and having to wait 48 hours or more.

I would imagine these days most younger dentists will be worried about paying the £40,000 debt they have from graduating (shortly to increase massively to an estimated £80,000) than how to pay for fancy cars.
Cheers from a Toyota driver ( traded in the 10 year old Skoda this year a great car) , Welshdent a mini driver, Toothsmith a bike rider, Coldstream ??