Advice needed on a realistic budget please

Annisele

To add to what others have said about your daughter:

If she's working, say, 20 hours a week at minimum wage, then her take home pay will be about £500 a month. As things stand, she might have more disposable income than you have!

The debts aren't her fault, so ignore those when you're thinking about fair contributions to the househould - but do think about the food she eats and her share of the bills.

I think that a useful starting point might be:

• With your daughter, work out what each of you earns.
• Work out what each of you *would* receive in benefit if the other one didn't live with you - for example, if your daughter wasn't there you'd get a council tax discount, and if she lived alone she might get some help with her rent (depending on her income).
• Work out what proportion of the household spending you're each actually getting through. For example, if there were two adults and three children, then I'd say that you should be responsible for the cost of what you and the children eat (she didn't choose to have children) and she should pay for whatever she eats.
• Between the two of you, come to an agreement as to who pays for what, and how much they should pay.

You might not want to go through all of those steps - there might be some painfully honest conversations in there if you do - but I think that there's stuff in there that you might be able to use as a basis for a discussion with your daughter.

me73

Good morning, and thanks for the further comments, I really appreciate it.

Allydowd - yes, I did shop around for car insurance, this was the cheapest I could get using Martin's suggestions (comparison sites, etc). It is up for renewal in Dec so will have a look again then.

I live near a supermarket so always get my petrol there because I assume it will be cheaper, but will double check using that site, I have used it in the past. Thanks

Firewalker -

The TV licence is higher than usual because two direct debit payments were refused by the bank so they recalculated the amount owing over the year.

1. TBH, DD has only started paying me board this month (she's been working since April) but I had to ask her now my income has decreased. She does sometimes buy food from work on top of this but I agree that it would help if she paid a bit more. She does have her own car insurance, petrol and mobile phone to pay though. I have no idea what would be a fair amount to suggest?

2. Yes, the mobile for my son was a very bad idea. I think the reason I agreed was because my ex had done the same for my two middle daughters and I wanted to show that I could do it too (even though I couldn't ias t turns out). I have called them but I am tied to the contract until next Christmas (it was 24 months) so even if I cancelled I would still be liable to pay the outstanding contract. I had a £15 a month contract of my own until recently, but I hardly used it so have swapped to pay as you go just so the kids can contact me.

3. The car is a tough one. I realise that I can't really afford it, but don't think I could do without it. I have to take my kids to school in the morning before work and this would mean two buses to their school (no direct route) and then three buses to work. I just don't think it's practical. I live in a housing association property that I waited 4 years to get, so don't want to go back to private renting, but I have been looking for an exchange nearer to the kids schools, so losing the car might be an option if this happens.

4. I will have a look at the Old Style board for hints on reducing the food bill further. I know food is an area I probably spend too much on, hence my weight gain!

Pollycat - my children are 21, 17, 14 and 13.

My phone and broadband are with Talk Talk - I changed them about 4 months ago and this was the best deal then. It has brought my bill down from £60+ pm with Virgin, so has definitely saved me money.

Yes, I do pay interest on some of the catalogues - Next and Freemans. Again, I know getting into this much debt with them was a stupid thing to do (and I've done it in the past and lived to regret it) but I moved into this house 18 months ago and used the catalogues to buy stuff to furnish it. The main expenses were curtains, a fridge freezer and beds for the kids, but I know I should have got them off eBay instead, which is where I do get most of my furniture.

Re: clothing, I have looked in charity shops, but never seem to find anything I like that fits me. I have been trying to buy from eBay, but of course you can't always sure it's going to fit when you've bought it. My winter coat for the last two years has been a LaRedoute one I bought off eBay for £5 though, so I have got some good buys.

No, I don't have contents insurance. I know that's silly, but it's an expense I can't afford at the moment.

Ok, I think that's long enough for one post :eek:

me73

Thanks Fakeplastic and Annisele for your comments about my daughter's contribution. Annisele, I will use your points to try and work out a reasonable amount to suggest to her. As you say, the debts and the children aren't her responsibility, so I do feel mean asking her for more. She does help out here and there too, and she is paying to redecorate her own bedroom (although she does expect me to do it all, despite saying she would help!)

I suppose I am a bit too soft financially with the kids, but I do feel that I have to try and 'compete' somewhat with their dad, who seems to have much more spare cash than me.

Annisele

I'm not sure I'd suggest an amount. Of course it depends very much on the personalities involved, but if it were my family I think I'd prefer a 'cards on the table' approach - you could always show her this thread and then see whether you think that the amount she suggests is reasonable.

The children and the debts aren't her responsibility, but she is very much her own responsibility. She must know that £60 a month really doesn't cover an adult's living costs, and tbh I'm a bit surprised she hasn't offered you money before now - unless she's overextended herself already with her own debts / car costs / other stuff.

The other thing that strikes me about your posts is that I'm not sure you can afford to be a two-car family. Between you and your daughter could you give one of them up? Could she take your children to school? At 13+, could they take themselves to school? (A total of five buses for you is a bit of a nightmare, but - depending on the journey - two for them might be no big deal).

gettingbackontrack

Please get contents insurance. I don't want to be the voice of doom but imagine coming home to find your possessions ruined - you wouldn't be able to afford to replace them. That's much more important than Sky.

Can you downgrade your son's mobile contract? Or can he contribute to it (get a Saturday job, maybe)?

Otherwise you seem to have lots of ideas for increasing your income and it does seem that your grocery budget is one area that you could cut down on - if you can save just a bit on that and petrol it will help.

Good luck.

kingfisherblue

My daughter works for an agency, so her work can be sporadic. When I stopped receiving tax credits and CB for her, I was down by £66 a week. I talked it over with her and she pays me £40 a week. If she has quite a lot of work, she sometimes pays me in advance (so that when she has very little work, she has already paid). She also pays for her own diet Coke (as she is the only one in the house who drinks the stuff, and she drinks little else!), her own toiletries, magazines, phone, etc.

On the other hand, she has a cheap place to live, with gas, electricity, landline, internet, Sky TV (basic), washing machine, dryer, meals, etc included. She has to help around the house and if I take her to work, she pays petrol. She is currently learning to drive, so obviously she pays for this herself (and also pays for her car, which was a good deal).

It works for us - my daughter knows that I'm not loaded (I'm on benefits, as I am full time carer for my disabled son). This week, as she has had so much extra work, she paid for half the shopping, in addition to her board, just to help me out. Yesterday, she made several meals from scratch, so that they could be put into the freezer and used whenever we're short of time (all Slimming World recipes, as we are trying to lose weight).

£60 a month from a working adult is really not enough for board, when you consider how much is included. It would cost about ten times that if living alone.

Pollycat

me73 wrote: »

Thanks Fakeplastic and Annisele for your comments about my daughter's contribution. Annisele, I will use your points to try and work out a reasonable amount to suggest to her. As you say, the debts and the children aren't her responsibility, so I do feel mean asking her for more. She does help out here and there too, and she is paying to redecorate her own bedroom (although she does expect me to do it all, despite saying she would help!)

If she were living in her own place, her rent and utility bills would probably take a lot of her wages and she would still have to pay her car insurance & petrol (assuming she could even afford to run a car).

Less than £15 per week is far too low.

me73 wrote: »

I suppose I am a bit too soft financially with the kids, but I do feel that I have to try and 'compete' somewhat with their dad, who seems to have much more spare cash than me.

You're not really doing them any favours by being too soft.

me73

Firewalker - I am reading the blog you posted the link to - it makes so much sense. In one post, she expresses exactly how I feel at the moment:

• Panic that living within the stated amount per week is not possible and that my children will not be able to go to school because they do not have shoes and they will most certainly go hungry. Also there was nothing left. How are we going to make it if something unexpected happens?
• Despair that we will live like that for a long time – deprived, scared and paralysed with nothing to look forward to. No fun, no treats, no good times; from middle age we will slide into senility with no memories.
• Fatalistic acceptance of things as they are and the conviction that I have done something really bad to deserve this lot. Childish I know!

And you are so right... it is my spending and general attitude towards money that I need to address. Even when I was married and we had almost double the income, we never seemed to be well off. I think that blog might be my new 'bible', thank you.

me73

Thanks for the latest comments on my daughter's contribution, it is really useful to hear how much other grown up children pay.

I think I feel a little bit guilty about asking her for more as she was the only one of the children who has lived with me full time constantly since I split with my husband 5 years ago. In that time we have moved house 4 times and really struggled financially - I spent about 7 months on income support when we often didn't have enough money to eat properly. After that, I returned to education and got my teaching qualification, and she has now graduated from uni, so in theory things should be looking up. It seems so depressing to acknowledge that money is still going to be tight for the forseeable future, and it feels hard to tell her that she can't be young and carefree. I had two children by her age, so never had that freedom, but really wanted better for my kids.

I'm sorry, I know I sound a bit sorry for myself, and I know there are others in much worse situations, but it feels like I've worked so hard to see little improvement. Ho hum.

gettingbackontrack

me73 wrote: »

Thanks for the latest comments on my daughter's contribution, it is really useful to hear how much other grown up children pay.

I think I feel a little bit guilty about asking her for more as she was the only one of the children who has lived with me full time constantly since I split with my husband 5 years ago. In that time we have moved house 4 times and really struggled financially - I spent about 7 months on income support when we often didn't have enough money to eat properly. After that, I returned to education and got my teaching qualification, and she has now graduated from uni, so in theory things should be looking up. It seems so depressing to acknowledge that money is still going to be tight for the forseeable future, and it feels hard to tell her that she can't be young and carefree. I had two children by her age, so never had that freedom, but really wanted better for my kids.

I'm sorry, I know I sound a bit sorry for myself, and I know there are others in much worse situations, but it feels like I've worked so hard to see little improvement. Ho hum.

Your feelings are completely natural - you and your daughter have done amazingly well to get your qualifications and it's understandable that you want her to have the best. You're a very good role model for her - you've kept things going, achieved a professional qualification and obtained a good job. And you've put her through uni despite all the worry over making ends meet.

Just think - your debt isn't that high (I know it probably seems a lot right now but you can pay it off). If you clear your rent and council tax arrears, you'll have a few more pounds a month to play with - maybe you could split whatever extra you have between paying more off the remaining debts and having a bit more spending money.

You mentioned you were worried about affecting your credit rating but can I advise you to contact your creditors and ask them to freeze the interest? I did that - otherwise i would never have got my £53,000 debt down to the £18,000 it is today (OK it's still a lot but compared with what it was.... I shudder when I remember it!). It's scary at first, knowing you can't get credit but then you actually learn to live within your income and after a few tough months the debt visible starts to decrease without all the interest making it worse.

I found that just saving £10 or so a week on groceries made a big difference when things were so tight. Maybe if your daughter could just pay a little more (another £40 a month?) things would be easier and she could still feel things are brightening up for her.