Loft conversion building and fire regs

wonderman

We are looking to buy a house that has had the loft converted to a games / play room. We have found out that there has been no building regs (or fire regs) approval. We need to find out exactly what needs to be done to meet the regs as we want to use the space as habitable space - and our surveyor has said we can not do that in its current state.
We have asked the local building control to inspect but they will only come out if an application is lodged - which of course we can not do as we do not own the property. The surveyor has outlined the main requirements (inc a fire escape route) but has not given enough specifics to enable us to obtain a builders quotation.

Any ideas how to get a definitive answer - there is loads of info on the web but it is hard to translate into specifics for one house - for example there is a requirement for the loft room to have a 30 minute fire resistance - but what does thie mean in practice?

abankerbutnotafatcat

We were in the same position. The EA advised the vendor to get a quote for the work as all potential buyers would want to know. It may cost more than you think as existing work may have to be undone to do the necessary work to meet regulations. I took the view that I was buying a property without the conversion and paid what I think I would have done without it.

poppysarah

Ask a surveyor. Ring a few for quotes and tell them you want to know how much remedial work will cost. Their survey will then include that info.

wonderman

This is what I have discovered too. It is mainly the fire regs that make the job complex and expensive.
We could deduct a value for the lack of the third floor but that is one of the main attractions of the house - a den for the kids as they grow older.

wonderman

poppysarah wrote: »

Ask a surveyor. Ring a few for quotes and tell them you want to know how much remedial work will cost. Their survey will then include that info.

It was my surveyor who pointed me in the direction of the local building inspector as he said that the regs are very complex. He probably does not want the liability of me buying the house and then discovering that he missed one of the requirements?

MX5huggy

The fire regs are not really that complicated, or expensive. You need a fire door separating the loft from the rest of the house and a mains wired fire alarm. Much more of a problem is the structure, where the ceiling joists replaced with floor joists? What changes where made to the roof structure, what insulation was installed behind the now installed plasterboard ceilings?

G_M

It is impossible.

The only way to get Buildings Regs certification retrospectively is for a formal application and th BR Inspecor will then come and inspect. THIS WILL INVOLVE PULLING UP FLOOR/EXPOSING JOISTS/LOOKING BEHIND CEILING ETC.

Hence no survey can really tell you what work will be required, as no surveyor will have access o hidden parts.

Is the new insulation between the ceiling/roof up to standard? Have roof joists been removed to make headoom, thus weakening the roof? Have he attic floor joists been strengthened (the original ones were not designed to support the weigh of furniture/people)?

None of this can be checked without damage.

One common option is to take out indemnity insurance. However
a) this protects only against the expense if Building Inspector enforces work
b) once the BI is alerted (and you've already alerted him!) the insurance is invalid
c) it does not protect you against the roof falling down or you falling throught the weakened floor!

Note also that as the attic has no BR certificate no normal buildings insurance will cover any damage, injury that occurs.

Your options ar
1) walk away
2) persuade the seller to accept the disruption, damage, cost and time of getting BR certificate
3) have as thorough survey as you can, accept that it will NOT tell you if major work (like new joists) is needed, and gamble that getting a certificat after you buy will not be too expensive
4) buy, keep your fingers crossed, trust that the conversion was done properly, and forget about certification

hazyjo

If you were sold it as a room rather than just a 'boarded loft space', definitely reduce the price. You really shouldn't be paying for any more than a boarded loft space.

Don't think it's just a case of putting in fire doors or changing a window... It can cost as much putting one right as it would doing it from scratch. Don't be tempted to use it as a room without the proper consents. Obviously you might be lucky and they'll say the floor's the right depth and the head height's acceptable, the doors are okay, along with the windows... and it won't cost you much to remedy. On the other hand, would you want to be doing a loft conversion, which might be what you end up doing? If that's so, you might be better buying a house with no conversion and doing it from scratch.

If you want a conversion already done, maybe you should think about starting again...

Tough, innit.

Jx

wonderman

MX5huggy wrote: »

The fire regs are not really that complicated, or expensive. You need a fire door separating the loft from the rest of the house and a mains wired fire alarm. Much more of a problem is the structure, where the ceiling joists replaced with floor joists? What changes where made to the roof structure, what insulation was installed behind the now installed plasterboard ceilings?

The structure seems to have been done properly as well as the insulation. The floor joists in the loft room are 210 x 75mm and spaced at 330mm - of course I have to rely on what I am told as they are now covered up.
The main issue is the stair case and fire escape I think. As far as I understand there needs to be a protected route to the front door - ie all bedroom doors and doors off the hallway need to be fire doors. Not sure whether there needs to be special treatment to the first floor ceilings such as a double plaster board layer.