Are copies of TPOs necessary?

sh_kilnao

Hi all,

Where can I find a full copy of the Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML) Handbook? Specifically, I am looking for the information of what are my solicitor’s exact legal duties in respect to my mortgage lender, as I have a feeling he is a bit excessively cautious and ordering searches not strictly necessary (in my view).

For instance, we already obtained a copy of the register of local land charges for the property I am buying, which indicates there are two TPOs (Tree Preservation Orders) related to the property. I called the local council and they confirmed to me that these are not on the land of the property (which does not contain any trees), but on the nearby communal areas. However, my solicitor is requesting the vendor’s solicitor to provide us with the copies of the said TPOs, which will hopefully indicate the exact locations of the trees. This I am afraid will prolong the process by several weeks. So I decided that I am fine with the information we have already obtained, and I am pushing for the exchange based on that, but my solicitor is not satisfied with it and citing his obligations to my mortgage lender.

Should I try to convince my solicitor that I am happy with the purchase to proceed, or there is there a clause in CML preventing him to do that?

Thanks in advance,

NS

P.S.
Just a short update - I've been able to find an online copy of CML, at cml.org.uk, and now I am ploughing through it, trying to find the relevant information.

sh_kilnao

..so, I've skimmed through the CML handbook, but still don't have an answer. I think the relevant portion is the following:

"5.4 Planning and Building Regulations
5.4.1 You must by making appropriate searches and enquiries take all reasonable steps (including any
further enquiries to clarify any issues which may arise) to ensure the property has the benefit of any
necessary planning consents (including listed building consent) and building regulation approval for its
construction and any subsequent change to the property and its current use; and
there is no evidence of any breach of the conditions of that or any other consent or certificate
affecting the property; and
that no matter is revealed which would preclude the property from being used as a residential
property or that the property may be the subject of enforcement action."

And in the search result of the property, there is the following section:

"3.9 Do any of the following subsist in relation to the property or has a local authority decided to issue, serve, make or commence any of the following:
...
(m) a tree preservation order No
..."

Now, what I am desperately trying to prove is this is sufficient as a proof that there are no TPOs on the property, but my solicitor is requesting all copies of the TPOs referenced in the planning charges section to be provided. I would tremendously appreciate any comment or advice on this matter.

NS

InkZ

I just had all this with my purchase. Local search came up with a TPO, but no record of it anywhere. I went through my council's website, where they have all the TPOs online. I found a TPO which had my address handwritten on from years ago, but the land the trees are on, are no longer part of my property as the garden was sold.

I told my solicitor that I wasn't bothered about the TPO as I was satisfied that a current one that affected my property doesn't exist and to exchange anyway. They didn't have any problem with this as long as I understood that it was at my own risk.

Can't you just ask for an indemnity policy worst case?

sh_kilnao

InkZ wrote: »

I just had all this with my purchase. Local search came up with a TPO, but no record of it anywhere. I went through my council's website, where they have all the TPOs online. I found a TPO which had my address handwritten on from years ago, but the land the trees are on, are no longer part of my property as the garden was sold.

I think my situation is a bit different. I have an oral confirmation from the local council that there has never been a TPO on the land itself, but only on the adjacent communal areas. However, since these TPOs are referenced on the search result, my solicitor wants copies in order to be able to prove to my mortgage lender that there are no TPOs on the land of the property I am buying.

I don't know how a TPO looks like, but presumably there is some kind of a plan, or something from which the exact location can be deduced?

InkZ wrote: »

I told my solicitor that I wasn't bothered about the TPO as I was satisfied that a current one that affected my property doesn't exist and to exchange anyway. They didn't have any problem with this as long as I understood that it was at my own risk.

I told him too I was not bothered to have that definitive proof, but he insists it's his legal duty with respect to the mortgage lender. That's where my interest for CML Handbook comes from.

InkZ wrote: »

Can't you just ask for an indemnity policy worst case?

Maybe I would but I am not sure whether this would incur more delay. What I am trying to achieve is to exchange early next week, and to avoid further delays from solicitors going through a couple of more iterations.

NS

InkZ

The search should have a TPO number on it. The number which my search brought back was for a TPO that wasn't anywhere near me!

Here's the list of TPOs for Bournemouth, maybe your council has something similar?

http://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/PlanningBuildings/ConservationDesignTrees/Trees/TPOAtoZ.aspx

sh_kilnao

InkZ wrote: »

The search should have a TPO number on it. The number which my search brought back was for a TPO that wasn't anywhere near me!

Yes, there are two TPO numbers that come up automatically with the postcode of the property, however, as I am told by the kind local council officers, these are only for the adjacent communal area. However, you don't get that information from the search, you apparently need to get the copies of these TPOs to have a definitive proof.

InkZ wrote: »

Here's the list of TPOs for Bournemouth, maybe your council has something similar?
...

Well, it is certainly brilliant that you can access all TPOs online for your council, and check the actual locations of the trees, but the council of Ealing in London just has a list of TPO numbers and approximate locations. So there would be some delay until I get those copies, which I am trying to avoid. Could be 2-3 days minimum, but I am wary of a worst-case scenario, and trying to convince my solicitor to draft the contract before we receive that.

NS

Richard_Webster

Even if there are TPOs on actual trees on the property I can't see that it is a concern to a lender at all unless their surveyor says that a tree very close to the property may have to come down because it could be a danger. How on earth is it going to make any difference to the lender's security?

Solicitor is being silly and going on an unnecessary paper collecting exercise.

If a search shows a TPO I might ask the other solicitors to provide a copy if they have one - so that if it raised its head as an issue when my clients sell we have the pieces of paper, but frankly I just wouldn't push it. I would tell my clients that some trees in the vicinity are protected and before doing any work to any tree they should first check with the Council. If other solicitors ask for copy TPOs that's what I suggest they tell their clients. If there are no trees within the curtilage the solicitor is daft.

sh_kilnao

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Even if there are TPOs on actual trees on the property I can't see that it is a concern to a lender at all unless their surveyor says that a tree very close to the property may have to come down because it could be a danger. How on earth is it going to make any difference to the lender's security?

As I understand it, it may make a difference in the case there are TPOs on the property, but the trees are gone - that would mean that the current owners felled trees without a permission.

What's confusing to me is that the local land charges search returned two TPOs "relating to the the above property" (along with some other charges, like a smoke control order), but it does not specify where the corresponding trees are. In a later section of the same search it is however stated that there are no TPOs that "subsist in relation to the property".

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Solicitor is being silly and going on an unnecessary paper collecting exercise.

And this is just the latest episode in a series of gaffes, so I finally decided to take matters in my hands and do a bit of research, not just continue following naively what I'm told. I have a feeling we could have exchanged around 3 weeks ago had it not been for those.

In any case, thanks for the reply!

NS