council tax responsibility

neeny444

Hi,

I am about to move into a new apartment with my partner. The property is the bottom floor of the landlords house.

Our agreement includes a payment to the landlord of £150 a month that includes all utilities and council tax.

However, earlier I was trying to switch over my tv license address from my current property (this has not been mentioned as part of the monthly payment) and realised that our apartment does not have a separate address listed.. it is just the main house.

Is it ever possible to have a separate address and have council tax included with that of the whole building? Is it possible that the property is considered an HMO and that is why there is no separate council tax?..

The landlord is away this week and I don't want to go messing around talking to the council about it until I can ask them.. However, I am in the process of signing off the tenancy agreement and sending it to the LA (who doesn't seem to know anything - what do we pay them £258 for!!??) and don't want to be putting myself into a situation that is not above board and that may result in us having to pay our own council tax on top of everything else going forward...

thank you for any clarification on this I have been reading about this for the last 2 hours and am more than a little confused!

cheers

N

G_M

Are there just the two 'properties'? The landlords's main house and a (basement?ground floor?) flat?

This would not be an HMO.

However, depending when/how the conversion was done (if indeed it was a conversion) the property may still be considered one property by Royal Mail, the council etc. My house has a 'granny annexe' added at the back, but only the one official address.

Only one TV licence.

Even though the council tax may be a single charge for the entire property, the LL can pass on some of that to you. What if, for example, he lived alone and received a 25% single person discount? You move into the flat and he loses the discount. Even if he is not alone, it is only fair you contribute - after all, the council will be removing your weekly rubbish, maintaining the street lights to help you get home at night etc etc

Have a chat with the LL and get a refund from TV licencing if appropriate instead of transferring the address.

neeny444

hi,

in the main house there are 2 properties yes. The landlord and family live upstairs and we live downstairs. Apparently our apartment was a holiday let before.

So it can be an above board situation with the council tax then? That they pay for the whole house and we just pay some of it?.. we just don't get our own address?...

I will ask them about the tv license as that would make more sense..

thank you

N

hazyjo

I'm a bit confused as to the set-up. Are you in a shared house (albeit with your own facilities), or do you have a separate flat? Are you a tenant or a lodger?

Jx

theartfullodger

As you will be Living in Landlord's house you will legally be a lodger not a tenant.

This has many implications, two critical ones being you will have almost no security of tenure - he just needs to give you reasonable notice then change Locks - and if you ever need any benefits -eg housing benefit /LHA - you'll be entitled to much less.

This is true even if agreement describes itself as an AST

Wouldn't mind betting the £150 extra is a crooked wheeze to evade tax.

lincroft1710

If your apartment is self contained, i.e. has its own kitchen and WC, then for council tax purposes it is a separate dwelling and it should have its own CT band. If this is the case, then despite whatever your tenancy states, it is the tenant who is responsible for paying the council tax not the landlord.

Regarding the TV licence, if the situation is as above then you will need your own TV licence.

G_M

theartfullodger wrote: »

As you will be Living in Landlord's house you will legally be a lodger not a tenant.

This has many implications, two critical ones being you will have almost no security of tenure - he just needs to give you reasonable notice then change Locks - and if you ever need any benefits -eg housing benefit /LHA - you'll be entitled to much less.

This is true even if agreement describes itself as an AST

Wouldn't mind betting the £150 extra is a crooked wheeze to evade tax.

This may/may not be true. My understanding (though I'm making assumptions) is that the OP has a self-contained flat. My annexe is similar, and I have a friend who lives in his brother's basement flat.

Whether this is an AST/tenant set up, or a shared property/lodger set up depends on various factors as yet unknown to us.

Does the OP have their own front door/access? - tenant.
Does the OP share any accomodation/space with the LL? - lodger.
Are utilities shared? - lodger.
Does LL have right of access to OP's space or is it 'exclusive use'? - tenant.

etc. As can be seen it is a difficult area of law. How it is described in the contract is irrelevant, it is the actual set-up that determines if it's an AST or not.

If the OP can clarify the set up we may be able to advise, but if it is ambiguous then only a court could decide.

mchale

theartfullodger wrote: »

Wouldn't mind betting the £150 extra is a crooked wheeze to evade tax.

You jump to some conclusions :eek:

neeny444

Ok this is sounding more complicated than I had hoped....

G_M wrote: »

This may/may not be true. My understanding (though I'm making assumptions) is that the OP has a self-contained flat. My annexe is similar, and I have a friend who lives in his brother's basement flat.

Whether this is an AST/tenant set up, or a shared property/lodger set up depends on various factors as yet unknown to us.

Does the OP have their own front door/access? - tenant.

YES

Does the OP share any accomodation/space with the LL? - lodger.

NO

Are utilities shared? - lodger.

YES, WE DON'T HAVE OUR OWN METERS AND PAY EVERYTHING VIA THIS £150 A MONTH (ALTHOUGH IT SEEMS THE TV LICENSE HAS BEEN OMITTED FROM THIS) WE HAVE OUR OWN KITCHEN AND WC

Does LL have right of access to OP's space or is it 'exclusive use'? - tenant.

NOT SURE WHAT THIS MEANS?.. THEY HAVE ACCESS TO A BOILER ROOM IN OUR APARTMENT AND THERE IS AN INTERNAL DOOR INTO OUR APARTMENT - OUR CURRENT BASEMENT FLAT APARTMENT IS EXACTLY THE SAME SET UP AND WE HAVE OUR OWN COUNCIL TAX AND ADDRESS HERE

etc. As can be seen it is a difficult area of law. How it is described in the contract is irrelevant, it is the actual set-up that determines if it's an AST or not.

If the OP can clarify the set up we may be able to advise, but if it is ambiguous then only a court could decide.

OTHER INFO...
We have an AST set up via the letting agency and the property is letting agency managed as well...

Not sure if it makes any difference but there is a second one bed 'annexe' property that is also being rented out that is above the main garage. Not sure what the set up id with this I believe it is a completely separate dwelling but it also seems to be without its own address as yet..

The entire 'estate' was built new about 5 years ago I think.

pinkshoes

Sounds to me like it used to be a holiday home i.e. the LL paid for all the bills etc..., but it now has a permanent tenant.

In which case, if there is no door to a shared communal entry (i.e. you only have access through your own door), then it is classified as a separate dwelling, and should have its own council tax bill and TV license.

I guess the LL is still treating it as a holiday home, thus you pay him a monthly amount and get unlimited elec/gas etc... £150 sounds reasonable for all bills.

The only problem is registering for voting, as don't you have to be on a council tax bill??

lincroft1710

pinkshoes wrote: »

.

The only problem is registering for voting, as don't you have to be on a council tax bill??

No. Adult children living with their parents aren't on the council tax bill but should be on the electoral roll.