clarification on consultation notice

generaloneill

i have just been put on consultation notice at my store, as have another 9 people. however, we were only given 30 days notice of this.

Now i know for a fact that this is going on at least 100 stores, so around 1000 redundancies company wide.

it was my belief that if there are 100 or more redundancies, that the notice period should be 90 days. Anyone got any idea?

thanks.

Pete111

Hi When you say 'consultation notice' do you mean you have been given notice that your employment may end in 30 days or that the consultation process will last only 30 days?

Where there is a redundancy scenario resulting in 100 + jobs in one place of work then the 90 day period you mention is from the start of the consultation until the earliest date of the 1st termination. The company does not need to actually consult throughout this entire period (though some do) they just can't let you go before the 90th day

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1073792401

Its worth noting that in terms of your contractual or stautory notice, this cannot be given until the 90th day after the start of the consultation if more than 100 roles are affected either. You should get to work this or be paid in leiu after the 90th day.

Another variable is whether or not all the sites you mention are considered 'one place of work' My understanding is that tribunals may well consider this to be the case where a single large firm makes a number of redundancies at various geographic sites. If you think they are trying to avoid this and instead opting for a shorter series of 30 day consultations in various regions (for example) you should raise the issue as part of the process and see what they say.

generaloneill

good answer, I am about to be offered the 30 day option, so will mention this.

Pete111

generaloneill wrote: »

good answer, I am about to be offered the 30 day option, so will mention this.

Yeah, if you have a strong suspicion there will be over 100 redundancies in the company across various sites (within a 90 day period) then you should definately ask about the nature of the collective consultation and how they are justifying a 30 day timeline over a 90 day one

generaloneill

had my first consultation and mentioned it, he said he will get back to me. he also said the company wouldnt do anything illegal, lol.

generaloneill

Q

How long should redundancy consultation be?
A

The law requires employers to consult with employees who are at risk of redundancy. Consultation must begin at least:

• Thirty days before the first of the dismissals takes effect (that is, when the employment contract is terminated) in a case where between 20 and 99 redundancy dismissals are proposed at one establishment within a period of ninety days or less;
• Ninety days before the first of the dismissals takes effect (that is, when the employment contract is terminated) in a case where 100 or more redundancy dismissals are proposed at one establishment within a period of ninety days or less.

Would one establishment mean one store, or would it mean the business as a whole?

Heres what I get from the dictionary.

es·tab·lish·ment (-stblsh-mnt)
n. 1. a. The act of establishing.
b. The condition or fact of being established.

2. Something established, as: a. An arranged order or system, especially a legal code.
b. A permanent civil, political, or military organization.
c. An established church.
d. A place of residence or business with its possessions and staff.
e. A public or private institution, such as a hospital or school.

3. often Establishment An established social order, as: a. A group of people holding most of the power and influence in a government or society. Often used with the.
b. A controlling group in a given field of activity. Often used with the.

fuse

My understanding (having been through redundancy and notice periods twice, in as many years) is that an establishment is regarded as a location of work, so if less than 100 people per location are being made redundant then 30 days is correct. Im guessing is a retail chain or some other high street chain from your posts, so regardless if more than 100 people in the whole organisation are being made redundant its numbers at individual locations which is the determining factor. There is more complexity around distances between establishments, but I think that may only be relevant in accepting "suitable alternative" positions.

getmore4less

Pete111 wrote: »

Hi When you say 'consultation notice' do you mean you have been given notice that your employment may end in 30 days or that the consultation process will last only 30 days?

Where there is a redundancy scenario resulting in 100 + jobs in one place of work then the 90 day period you mention is from the start of the consultation until the earliest date of the 1st termination. The company does not need to actually consult throughout this entire period (though some do) they just can't let you go before the 90th day

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1073792401

Its worth noting that in terms of your contractual or stautory notice, this cannot be given until the 90th day after the start of the consultation if more than 100 roles are affected either. You should get to work this or be paid in leiu after the 90th day.

Another variable is whether or not all the sites you mention are considered 'one place of work' My understanding is that tribunals may well consider this to be the case where a single large firm makes a number of redundancies at various geographic sites. If you think they are trying to avoid this and instead opting for a shorter series of 30 day consultations in various regions (for example) you should raise the issue as part of the process and see what they say.

MY understanding is the 30/90 days and notice can be concurrant if consultation has been completed within the time which it is possible to do.

SarEl

fuse wrote: »

My understanding (having been through redundancy and notice periods twice, in as many years) is that an establishment is regarded as a location of work, so if less than 100 people per location are being made redundant then 30 days is correct. Im guessing is a retail chain or some other high street chain from your posts, so regardless if more than 100 people in the whole organisation are being made redundant its numbers at individual locations which is the determining factor. There is more complexity around distances between establishments, but I think that may only be relevant in accepting "suitable alternative" positions.

The legal definition is quite different - it is neither about single locations nor single companies. A single establishment may be a single site or mutiple sites, in the latter case the legal tests involve the extent to which the defined establishments is managed independantly of others - so managreial independance to decide things is a key factor. European law says that the courts should tend to assume towards all redundancies in a company taking place within the same time frame are being part of a single establishment unless the employer can prove otherwise.

fuse

SarEl wrote: »

The legal definition is quite different - it is neither about single locations nor single companies. A single establishment may be a single site or mutiple sites, in the latter case the legal tests involve the extent to which the defined establishments is managed independantly of others - so managreial independance to decide things is a key factor. European law says that the courts should tend to assume towards all redundancies in a company taking place within the same time frame are being part of a single establishment unless the employer can prove otherwise.

Thanks SarEl, for correcting that - interesting point, gives me a bit more confidence in due process!

generaloneill

I asked the question last week, as to wether I was entitled to 90 days, instead of the 61 days consultation I am on.

I was told that the 30 days is the statutory consultation period.

So basically the company is trying to chance their luck.