Is landlord responsible for saftey catches?

paddy's_mum

SAMMYE wrote: »

Of course the landlord should pay as we are obviously all millionaires!!

OP should just tell the tenant that if they want to pay for them to be fitted then they have permission to go ahead (in my opinion).

Yes, okay .. but at the end of the day, this is another little feature that can be listed on the letting details under 'safety' and may well recoup its initial cost many times over.

If, heaven forbid, a child did indeed fall out of the unsecured window, it's likely to cost the landlord a LOT more than the initial installation costs to have even half an hour with a specialist solicitor, even if that consultation produces the opinion that the landlord is entirely blameless.

I'd also suggest that having the tenant provide the locks and the installer (even with the permission of the landlord) may (people being what they are and too often going on price not quality) could mean that the landlord is left with holes in good quality d/g windows in order to fit 3rd or 4th rate window locks. The most sensible among us too often get our legs took up by a plausible salesman!

If the tenant has so far been a good one, I find nothing in their safety concerns to ring an alarm bell. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that any grandmother this (politely) concerned about the safety of her grandchildren is probably also a conscientious member of the community.

I don't often find that conscientious parents or grandparents live in disgustingly filthy houses, clear off to the pub leaving tot with drunken grandma and then wail with grief when the inevitable comes to pass... Inquest Court anyone?

Eton_Rifle

mustrum_ridcully wrote: »

Refusing permission carries a risk if something does go wrong.

Is this true? If something isn't a legal requirement can the landlord be held responsible?

Can the tenant ask for wooden floors and stairs to be fully carpetted, for example, in case a child runs and slips over? If the landlord refuses, is it his responsibility if there's an accident?

Just wondering about the implications of all this.

theartfullodger

ER surely the issue is if there is a dreadful incident how would the LL look in court & in the local papers..


Oddly, some people think "doing the right thing" is a reason for doing something as much as "I have to do it because of the law", notwithstanding being law-abiding being so admirable....

mustrum_ridcully

theartfullodger wrote: »

ER surely the issue is if there is a dreadful incident how would the LL look in court & in the local papers..


Oddly, some people think "doing the right thing" is a reason for doing something as much as "I have to do it because of the law", notwithstanding being law-abiding being so admirable....

Artful has summed it up pretty well.

As one of the ambulance chaser ads says "where there's blame, there's a claim" - they'd be like vultures.

Even if the matter got settled out-of-court chances are that it'll be reported and to Joe Public an out-of-court settlement is as good as an admission of guilt (no matter what lawyers say).

Eton_Rifle

I think you're making some assumptions there, Artful! There is no need to make moral judgements when someone seeks clarification of an issue!

I'm asking out of interest because such a rule could have major implications.

I rent out a house with a Tudor wooden staircase. Putting carpet on this staircase would not be desirable and I'm not even sure if I'd be allowed to do so actually.

If a tenant tells me this staircase is a hazard to her child and and requests carpetting which I refuse, am I liable if the child slips and breaks his neck?

There would be a lot of situations like where something isn't a declared hazard yet tragedy could ensue. I'm just idly wondering where the line is drawn, that's all.

theartfullodger

Perhaps, as required in Scotland, you might produce a "Risk Assessment" for such issues as well as Fire matters and include it in the pack given to tenants & signed for,....

I was not making any moral judgement.. Your morals are you you to decide: My morals are nothing to write home about...

martindow

theartfullodger wrote: »

My morals are nothing to write home about...

Tell us more!

tyllwyd

Eton_Rifle wrote: »

I think you're making some assumptions there, Artful! There is no need to make moral judgements when someone seeks clarification of an issue!

I'm asking out of interest because such a rule could have major implications.

I rent out a house with a Tudor wooden staircase. Putting carpet on this staircase would not be desirable and I'm not even sure if I'd be allowed to do so actually.

If a tenant tells me this staircase is a hazard to her child and and requests carpetting which I refuse, am I liable if the child slips and breaks his neck?

There would be a lot of situations like where something isn't a declared hazard yet tragedy could ensue. I'm just idly wondering where the line is drawn, that's all.

Just from a lay person's point of view, I would have thought it would be on a case by case basis and depending on whether something was actually broken or in need of repair - if a tenant told you that they wanted a carpet instead of wooden stairs, that's a personal choice rather than a danger, and there has to be some understanding that accidents can happen even if there is nothing wrong, but if they told you that there were bannisters missing or loose and a child fell through the hole, that might be your responsibility. Or if a carpet was torn and you hadn't mended it, that might be your responsibility.

So with the window catches, I'd have said that it depends on the actual window and how far it opens and how close it is to the ground - at the end of the day, a child can fall out of any open window if they are allowed to climb up to it. But with a bottom opening window, personally I'd err on the side of safety.

teeni

Would this be covered by the HHRSR, falls between levels, if the windows are low to the ground and a child could fall through them if there are not adequate catches could just be a breech.

Just a thought and isuppose it depends on what floor it is on.