csa and overnight stays

sandraroffey

my daughter has got a problem on her hands. the csa have phoned her tonight and told her that her ex partner had been in contact and is telling them that he has the 2 boys 52 nights a year or more, when he absolutely doesnt. this has come about because he had been told he had to give them £5 a week out of his benefits, and he doesnt want to.

he has them the first and the third weekend of every month. if the month has an extra weekend, its ignored. its only the first and the third weekend. which is 4 nights a month x 12 months = 48. csa are saying they make it 52 ( 4 x 12 didnt make 52 when i went to school). at least three months of last year, he had them on the first weekend only. cos he couldn't go and collect them. she told them that she wasnt bothered about £5 a week. but was bothered that they seem to think that based on what he is saying (repeat: he doesnt have them for that much time), she has been overpaid. how can she prove that what he is saying isnt true. we think he is saying that he has them every other weekend, which would prob make it around 52.

she really isnt bothered about the £5 a week,... what she is bothered about is if/when he gets a job, because of what he is saying now, she wont get anything for the boys then either.. it will still be zero.

advice please.

PreludeForTimeFeelers

Both parties have to prove overnight stays, so her ex will also have to prove when they stayed. If she has kept a diary or marked on a wall calendar then that could be considered as evidence. Otherwise she will have to write it all in a letter to the CSA, detailing how many nights it was in the past 52 weeks. Her ex will have to do the same.

If the CSA allow him Band 1 shared care that would mean he'd not have to pay anything while on benefits, but it will be different when he gets a job. Let's say he should pay £21 per week - band one shared care would give him 1/7th allowance off, so he would still have to pay £18. It's not a great deal of difference, but to be fair to everyone the shared care should be correct - if he has them less than 52 nights a years then he shouldn't be allowed any reductions.

sandraroffey

he doesnt have them that many nights. really he doesnt. he is lying. this is just spite on his part: my daughters partner had a go at him for walking out of a good job and getting himself on benefits. he was previously paying something like £368 a month, through the CSA.

the day he contacted the CSA about the nights, (last monday) was the day AFTER her partner had a word. it was also the day he received a letter from the CSA telling him he had to pay £5 a week out of his benefits. clearly doesnt want to pay for his boys. he also 3 other children by 2 different mothers, and has NEVER paid a penny for them.

he is such a liar and right now is doing anything he can to get at my daughter. he has pulled some serious stunts in the past, believe me.

thanks for the information. im sure she will be relieved to hear what you said.

clearingout

whoa! you really need to think about this. Your daughter's partner has a go? with all due respect, what on earth has it got to do with him? the children are both your daughter's and her ex's responsibility and the new chap having a go at him isn't going to go down well, is it? If my ex's new girlfriend came and yelled at me for taking £368 out of her household's monthly income I wouldn't be very pleased, it's nothing to do with her!

obviously walking out of a job isn't a good idea. However, unless you're aware of the circumstances of that 'walking out', it's not really your place (or anyone else's to judge). If he hasn't paid for his other children, it's really up to the mothers of those children to contact the CSA and get things sorted. If he has 5 children in total, your daughter has most certainly had the financial benefit of his salary to the detriment of his other children whilst he was in work. Judging someone for not paying when you're receiving more than you would if other children weren't going without isn't something to be proud of, is it? Presumably if she ever lived with the man in question, she was happy for him not to pay child maintenance to his other children?

sandraroffey

yes. she lived with him and it was her who instigated that he actually had contact with the other children. one child he hasnt seen for 5 years. the older two, he hadnt had any contact with for a lot of years. she just kept sending them birthday presents and christmas presents which has never done and when they knew there was going to be twin baby brothers coming along, they got back in touch. and yes i do know the circumstances of him walking out of his job.

when my daughter met him she was very young and very impressionable; as in believing evrything he said wthout question which was a big mistake. he was a bit older. he always said that they didnt want anything from him. they didnt want anything to do with him.

and her new partner: 'had a go' was maybe a bit strong. the boys father is always not doing the things with them that he is supposed to, and this was one of those times: he didnt bring them back to where they were supposed to swop over (halfway between them both), so my daughter had to drive another fifty-odd miles to go and get them. and i think her partner was rather cross that yet again, he had let everyone down. he had fallen out with his girlfriend and the boys had seen them shouting and throwing things, their stuff was thrown out the car in the road, 'all in the wet mummy!!' and when she drove off, daddy was kicking her car. this sort of behaviour occurs on a regular basis and they dont need to see stuff like that. my daughter just rolls over and plays dead for the sake of a quiet life. her partner was more cross that yet again, the boys were upset when they picked them up.

i have told her what was said about the 52 nights rule and she was happy to hear that.

thanks to you all for the sound advice.

PreludeForTimeFeelers

I think your daughter's partner was within his rights to have a go to be honest, he's helping her to bring up someone else's children, so it's perfectly natural for him to get narked if the other party is messing your daughter around.

PreludeForTimeFeelers

sandraroffey wrote: »

he doesnt have them that many nights. really he doesnt. he is lying. this is just spite on his part: my daughters partner had a go at him for walking out of a good job and getting himself on benefits. he was previously paying something like £368 a month, through the CSA.

the day he contacted the CSA about the nights, (last monday) was the day AFTER her partner had a word. it was also the day he received a letter from the CSA telling him he had to pay £5 a week out of his benefits. clearly doesnt want to pay for his boys. he also 3 other children by 2 different mothers, and has NEVER paid a penny for them.

he is such a liar and right now is doing anything he can to get at my daughter. he has pulled some serious stunts in the past, believe me.

thanks for the information. im sure she will be relieved to hear what you said.

If he only told the CSA about shared care last Monday then he definitely hasn't overpaid your daughter, as even if the CSA accept his side of things then it would be aligned to last Monday. I'd advise your daughter to ring them and tell them how many nights they've stayed with him in the past 52 weeks, and write them a letter confirming what she's told them.

sandraroffey

she was trying to ring them first thing this morning, but their computers were down for updating and they couldnt speak about specific cases.

so thats her first job on monday.

i think he was within his rights as well - money or no money - its all about how the boys are looked after when they are with him. clearly not normal family life i can assure you. these huge rows with his girlfriend, in front of the boys, is a normal regular thing. they get dreadfully upset. and i think it all just got to the stage that he had to say something; they have been left with him at railway stations and tehy didnt know if they were going to get home or not, oh tons of stuff. they are only 6 for heavens sake. what he asked him was why was there always a problem with him. and told him perhaps it was time to get himself sorted out so he can look after his boys properly.

her new partner clearly adores the boys and they adore him. and he worries about them when they are with their dad. they have come back before and said that they have had nothing to eat 'because daddy was still in bed at lunchtime'. so who was looking after them???

its her new partner who , when she is on nights, bathes them, gives them their meal, gets them to bed and get them to school the next morning.

the money side of things, he said right at the beginning when csa told him what he had to pay, 'then i will go on the dole'. he didnt....then. but he has now. my own feelings on this, and remember that i know him as well, is that he really doesnt want to have his boys, at all. i think he finds them an inconvenience and is looking for any way out that he can, by putting all the pressure on my daughter. eventually she will say that this is to upsetting for the boys and then he can turn around and say that it wasnt his fault.

however, the posters on here have given her the answer she needed about overpayments and what happens to the zero payment when he gets a job. thank you all for that.

clearingout

PreludeForTimeFeelers wrote: »

I think your daughter's partner was within his rights to have a go to be honest, he's helping her to bring up someone else's children, so it's perfectly natural for him to get narked if the other party is messing your daughter around.

I don't disagree. But at the same time, I do think that new partners getting involved adds an enormous amount of unecessary fuel to already well-burning fires! Until recently,the ex has been paying a significant amount. He has also been seeing his children. He will, of course, conveniently forget that he's deliberately left his job, subjects his children to his and his new partner's arguments etc.etc. and take offence at any criticism sent his way! I think one of the keys to separated parenting is knowing when to keep your mouth shut and perhaps this was one of those occassions? Telling people they're behaving badly when they probably know it, deep down, isn't the way to get what you want from them. In fact, I'd hazard a guess, dealing with your ex is much like training a toddler - lots of ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good!

OP - my apologies if I came across as harsh. I know how difficult it is (I don't receive any maintenance) but I do sometimes think it's worth trying to see things from the other side. It won't always help improve things, I guess!

sandraroffey

of course. but how do you deal with a chap who can never be wrong, everything he says and does cannot be spoken against - he is GOD. he is wonderful, how can anything he does POSSIBLY be a problem for anyone, especially the kids. and now he is saying they have to come and live with him!!!!!!!!!! just what planet is he on???

speedster

personally i think they both need to grow up.

arguing over 8 days a year and £5a week??

pathetic.