redundancy point scoring system

emmaxxc

I had a letter off my manager saying I had been selected for redundancy as I was in the bottom 8, (he says 8 have been made redundant but I know 8 havent, some have left for other jobs) I'm also pregnant, and 2 other pregnant women announced in the last 2 years they were pregnant and they were made redundant pretty sharpish! in the letter he asked me to ring him as I'm off sick at the moment due to high risk pregnancy. when I rang him he took me through the point scoring system, he said everyone is scored on skills, experience, service and sickness & lateness, so my main question is 'can you be scored on sickness??' I had a period off sick for depression in January and I have lots of other health problems so have had days off here and there with that. He said we havent scored you on your sickness due to your pregnancy as we cant.

As I said to someone else the other day, could you imagine if someone had been off sick with cancer and got made redundant because of that sick period?? I dont think it would happen as it would be very controversial!

Jarndyce

Yes, providing the overall scoring system is objective, fair and reasonable, sickness records and punctuality can be and very often are taken into account in redundancy scoring.

Employers do however have to be careful to avoid taking pregnancy related and disability related sickness into account so as not to discriminate against such staff on those grounds, so they are right to discount your pregnancy related sickness (as they also should with the relevant absence of any cancer sufferer who would be automatically considered disabled under the Equality Act) but also entitled to count your period of depression.

Sorry but your employer doesn't seem to have done anything wrong here based on what you have said so far.

emmaxxc

well I dont think I would be considered with a disability, I have a malformation of my arteries and veins, it affects me in allsorts of different ways, but I wouldnt expect you to know much about it as it's complicated & you arent doctors I dont think lol. they were aware I had this condition when they employed me though. and I've had lots of appointments as a result of this condition, I tell my supervisor about planned days off for appointments but I'm pretty sure she never told my manager who is responsible for the clocking system, so obviously they got put down as sick days. fair enough if they can score you on that though. I just hadnt seen it mentioned on the citezens advice website.

I just find it all so convenient as any pregnant women are quickly made redundant!

Jarndyce

emmaxxc wrote: »

well I dont think I would be considered with a disability, I have a malformation of my arteries and veins, it affects me in allsorts of different ways, but I wouldnt expect you to know much about it as it's complicated & you arent doctors I dont think lol. they were aware I had this condition when they employed me though. and I've had lots of appointments as a result of this condition, I tell my supervisor about planned days off for appointments but I'm pretty sure she never told my manager who is responsible for the clocking system, so obviously they got put down as sick days. fair enough if they can score you on that though. I just hadnt seen it mentioned on the citezens advice website.

I just find it all so convenient as any pregnant women are quickly made redundant!

You don't need to be a doctor to assess whether a person is disabled under the Equality Act, the definition is designed so that lay people can make that assessment, because it is in the actual impact of the condition on your day to day activities that counts, not the condition itself (apart from things like cancer which are automatically covered upon diagnosis). But if you never told your employer that you had this condition then even if it was a qualifying condition that is academic.

As for your final line, you would have to demonstrate that but for their pregnancy these women would not have been made redundant. Not an easy thing to prove I would have thought.

LadyMissA

emmaxxc wrote: »

I had a letter off my manager saying I had been selected for redundancy as I was in the bottom 8, (he says 8 have been made redundant but I know 8 havent, some have left for other jobs) I'm also pregnant, and 2 other pregnant women announced in the last 2 years they were pregnant and they were made redundant pretty sharpish! in the letter he asked me to ring him as I'm off sick at the moment due to high risk pregnancy. when I rang him he took me through the point scoring system, he said everyone is scored on skills, experience, service and sickness & lateness, so my main question is 'can you be scored on sickness??' I had a period off sick for depression in January and I have lots of other health problems so have had days off here and there with that. He said we havent scored you on your sickness due to your pregnancy as we cant.

As I said to someone else the other day, could you imagine if someone had been off sick with cancer and got made redundant because of that sick period?? I dont think it would happen as it would be very controversial!

it can happen. As soon as you tell your company you are pregnant any sickness is not counted on the sick records that would be used for redundany reasons but if you have had cancer they would be used.

globalds

Did the company ever bring up the issue of your sickness to you before this situation ?

Jarndyce

globalds wrote: »

Did the company ever bring up the issue of your sickness to you before this situation ?

What difference does that make? They are conducting a one off redundancy exercise here and taking everyone's sick record into account as part of a wider scoring system. It doesn't matter at all whether the employee's sick record was peviously cause for concern.

LadyMissA

Googlewhacker wrote: »

Any pregnancy related sickness is not counted, breaking your leg whilst pregnant could be counted.

And as I mentioned sickness related to disability can be discounted as a reasonable adjustment from the company towards the employee. It can be partially discounted, fully discount or not discounted at all (but then they may open themselves to a claim)

what is counted as a disability?

Ah but the girl who was pregnant in my old office called in sick and just said it was related to being pregnant and there was nothing anyone could do to challenge that but if anyone else was sick they didn't like it.

Jarndyce

Googlewhacker wrote: »

Yeah if you are pregnant you are very hard to dismiss or discipline legally...whether that is correct or not is up for debate (most pregnant women are still very good in employment, the odd few will swing the lead which is what gets employers backs up).

Definition of a disability by a union...quite a good article.

http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/equality/disability_equality_toolkit/dda_definition_of_disability.cfm

And also out of date - like much in PCS

See the EHRC website and the 2010 Equality Act for the up to date definition.

michaelvintner

Point scoring is flawed. When I got made redundant years ago I got full marks for my time keeping 5 out of 5. That is depite the fact I could not get anywhere on time if my life depended on it.

LadyMissA

michaelvintner wrote: »

Point scoring is flawed. When I got made redundant years ago I got full marks for my time keeping 5 out of 5. That is depite the fact I could not get anywhere on time if my life depended on it.

but there are other things they score on so you must have got lower than someone else on those.