Changing electricity meter / tariff means storage heater, hot water may not work?

gruntled_not

Hi, huge thanks to anyone who can help wth this.

I tried to change my EDF economy tariff to a standard tariff, gven that almost all of my consumption is during the day, bar one storage heater in the winter.

EDF tried to talk me out of it and fnally said they would send a guy to change the meter.

When he came, he said he didn't know, but changing the meter might affect the storage heater and the hot water - they might not work at all.

I don't know what he was basing this on as he wasn't in my flat nor had he seen the appliances in question.

Is it to possible for a storage heater and / or a hot water system not to work at all if they're on the wrong tariff?

I know these flats (Glenville Grove in London SE8) were built in 1990 and were fitted with storage heaters at the time of building.

In case this sheds any light on anything, the electricity main box has 2 main circuit switches. One is for circuits 1-5 which are not marked. The second main switch is for circuits 6-11, and these are marked with everything used in the flat - shower, heater, lights etc.

Cheer, H

HappyMJ

Why don't you try and move your usage to the night rate. The hot water should be timed to only heat during the night and the heating should be timed to recharge during the night. Using half of your winter usage and a quarter of your summer usage at night will save you money. I can see why they were reluctant to change you.

gruntled_not

Thanks, HappyMJ. However our usage includes sgnificant hot water during the way, and a washing machine, which, in a small block of flats, would be hugely inconsiderate to use late at night. The only signifcant night use is 5 months a year of storage heater.

As I said, what I'm really tryng to establish is if there is such a thing as a property so wired that it can only be used with an economy 7 meter.

evilmonkey69

They could add your day and night usage together to a total usage, then charge you a standard version tariff and your meter would remain the same. Suppliers don't like to do this, but it is possible and you wouldn't have to worry about any wiring issues. Seems a suitable resolution to me, since they couldn't answer your metering question with any real clarity.

Richie-from-the-Boro

gruntled_not wrote: »

Thanks, HappyMJ. However our usage includes significant hot water during the way, and a washing machine, which, in a small block of flats, would be hugely inconsiderate to use late at night. The only significant night use is 5 months a year of storage heater.

As I said, what I'm really trying to establish is if there is such a thing as a property so wired that it can only be used with an economy 7 meter.

There are two ways it works

You currently have either:

- two sets of wiring, one set on one meter
- and another set on a different white meter

or

- two sets of wiring, connected to one single telemeter that switches between cheap night / or / expensive daytime leccy

You have identified that there are two wiring circuits, but have not said how many meters or what type of meter, does your E7 meter have two digital readings for day / night use ?

Do what evilmonkey69 says and get in touch with your supplier ASP. TBH I've no idea what your question is my friend. You seem to be asking if your water / night store will / may stop working, and the answer is yes it may stop working because it may be on a different circuit. It is not the responsibility of your energy supplier to re-route your water heating, that responsibility and cost is yours or your landlords.

NOTE

- if your usage includes significant hot water during the day / anytime then the nonE7 daytime costs using an immersion heater will be very very high
- your control unit / timer next to the E7 hot water cylinder will probably need changing etc

You need to get some advice if you go ahead my friend, you may have wiring / control issues even if the supplier adds your day and night usage together as evilmonkey69 says !

HappyMJ

gruntled_not wrote: »

Thanks, HappyMJ. However our usage includes sgnificant hot water during the way, and a washing machine, which, in a small block of flats, would be hugely inconsiderate to use late at night. The only signifcant night use is 5 months a year of storage heater.

As I said, what I'm really tryng to establish is if there is such a thing as a property so wired that it can only be used with an economy 7 meter.

How significant is the hot water usage during the day? If you heat the water at night and use it during the day you will save money. There is usually 120litres of hot water. That is enough for almost any family that can fit in a flat. Larger flats will have bigger tanks. The savings for you switching to a standard tariff will be non existant. Yes there are properties than can only be used with E7. They will be wired to use radio time switches to turn on and turn off the storage heating according to signals received over the radio.

As the repsonse above says it is very very expensive to heat water during the day. On my bill it would be 15p per unit during the day and during the night it's 5p. If you switched to standard tariff then the cost would be 12.5p whenever you decided to heat the water. You would lose the option to heat the water at 5p. Standard tariff are only for houses that have Gas central heating and a gas heated hot water.

gruntled_not

Evil Monkey,
"They could add your day and night usage together to a total usage, then charge you a standard version tariff.."
Thank you so much, that hadn't even occurred to me!

Happy MJ
"The savings for you switching to a standard tariff will be non existant. Yes there are properties than can only be used with E7. They will be wired to use radio time switches to turn on and turn off the storage heating according to signals received over the radio...."
Thanks again! My average annual usage is 2wice as much during the day as it is on cheap rate so that's why I'm interested in a possible alternative.

Richie from the Boro,
"you either have two sets of wiring, one set on one meter
- and another set on a different white meter..."
Thanks a milliion for your detailed enquiry back. Forgive the non tech version of info about to follow.
The electrc meter box contains: 1, a digital meter (you cycle thru for rate 1, rate 2 and total), 2, a big black Radio Teleswitch box, and 3, a small white box which has a thick black (mains connect?) lead leading out of the box, on the opposite site to the wires that feed into the box. The white box doesn't look like a meter (no dials).

Thanku so much everyone. I love this forum!

espresso

HappyMJ wrote: »

Yes there are properties than can only be used with E7. They will be wired to use radio time switches to turn on and turn off the storage heating according to signals received over the radio.

Incorrect any customer can change from an E7 tariff to a single rate tariff. When the multi-rate meter (or two separate meters) is replaced by a single rate meter, the radio teleswitch is simply removed as it is redundant.

Only some suppliers will add the day and night rates together - depends if their billing system will allow this, others insist that a single rate meter is fitted.

If the OP is not making use of the cheaper E7 night rate units i.e. not using night storage heaters, water heater on cheap rate, then the units used during the other seventeen hours of the day will cost more than on a single rate tariff.
.

gruntled_not

Hi, Espresso,
"When the multi-rate meter (or two separate meters) is replaced by a single rate meter, the radio teleswitch is simply removed as it is redundant..."
Thanks so much. That's really good news. I do have difficulty persuading people I'm better off with standard tariff. In my last place, even given the sums, customer service from that electricity co were still flogging the company line about cheap night rates. (in that house, I did finally manage to get it changed, and it was beneficial.

gruntled_not

MJ,
thanks again again for your previous input, re
",,,How significant is the hot water usage during the day?..."

Just to explain, during the day, I use several computers, tv and sad lights on any grey days, including all winter. The shower is fed by a separate electric feed, (not the boiler), and the hot water heated up overnight is replaced as it is used. In the winter, in addition to the single night storage heater, two, occasionally three, other oil fired heaters are on.

macman

If your peak usage is twice your off-peak, (66% to 33%) then you are right on the cusp of E7 being cheaper. Typically you need to use not less than one third of your units on night rate, which you are. I can see no reason why you need to keep boosting your hot water during the day, If you don't do that your E7 will probably be cheaper. Heat a full tank overnight, make sure your tank is properly lagged, and it should last most of the day. If not, you can still use the boost. If you have the boost permanently on then you are just throwing money away.
You aren't using hot water for the shower from your immersion heater, as you have an electric shower, so why do you need to replace the hot water as it's used?
PC and TV usage is not really a factor, what costs is heating and hot water.
You might do better to replace your oil heaters (peak rate) with a couple more night storage heaters.