End of tenancy notice from Landlord?

Wobblydeb

I am coming to the end of a AST, and hoped someone can confirm my understanding is correct (after reading previous threads)......

My AST finishes 2nd Sep.

I don't think that the LL issued a Section 21 notice when I signed the contract. Can someone tell me what one looks like? I'll check my paperwork.

If there isn't a S21, then am I correct in thinking that I don't have to vacate by 2nd Sep? The LL needs to give me 2 months notice?

This would give me sufficient time to buy/rent another place....

Does the notice have to be to the 2nd of a month, or if they give notice tomorrow, then I have to vacate by 22nd September?

BitterAndTwisted

Assume that you haven't been served with a Section 21 Notice and SPEAK to your landlord about what their intentions are and what outcome you would prefer. S21 Notices have to be served according to the rental-periods on the original tenancy agreement however if the landlord has not protected your deposit in one of the three schemes any Notice would be invalid. Most sensible landlord would not seek to end a tenancy and risk a void period between tenancies if the current tenant is reliable.

Wobblydeb

Ahhhh ...... Landlord intends to sell the house. I have discussed the possibility of buying it (obviously they were keen to sell to existing tenants) but they have an asking price that is a bit higher than I want to pay.

The deposit is in a protected scheme so no impact on notice.

I am hoping that they will allow the tenancy to roll over if we cannot agree a purchase price.

may_fair

Wobblydeb wrote: »

My AST finishes 2nd Sep.

I don't think that the LL issued a Section 21 notice when I signed the contract.

Even if he did, there's a good chance if would be invalid, if LL had not both protected the deposit and given you the prescribed information before serving the s.21 (because a s.21 served before that happens will be invalid). Also, a s.21 cannot be served before the tenancy commences, i.e. before T moves in.

If there isn't a S21, then am I correct in thinking that I don't have to vacate by 2nd Sep? The LL needs to give me 2 months notice?

You do not have to vacate by 2nd Sept, and if you don't a statutory periodic tenancy will automatically arise (assuming you don't sign a renewal contract). Even if the LL had served a valid s.21, you wouldn't have to vacate by 2nd Sept. A s.21 notice is not a notice to quit and does not end the tenancy; it just entitles the LL to apply for possession after notice expiry.

Does the notice have to be to the 2nd of a month, or if they give notice tomorrow, then I have to vacate by 22nd September?

A s.21(1)(b) notice served during the fixed term must give T at least two months and cannot expire before the end of the fixed term. It does not have to expire at the end of a tenancy period; that only applies to s.21(4)(a) notices served during a periodic tenancy.

If the LL served notice tomorrow, 22nd July, the earliest the notice could expire would be "after 22nd September" but, to reiterate, it would not mean you had to vacate by 22nd September.

Because a s.21 notice does not end the tenancy at notice expiry, if you wanted to vacate and end the tenancy, you would have to either vacate at fixed term expiry (to avoid a periodic tenancy arising) or, if you remained and the tenancy became periodic, you would have to serve notice to quit - at least one month and also expiring at the end of a tenancy period.

Wobblydeb

may_fair wrote: »

A s.21(1)(b) notice served during the fixed term must give T at least two months and cannot expire before the end of the fixed term. It does not have to expire at the end of a tenancy period; that only applies to s.21(4)(a) notices served during a periodic tenancy.

If the LL served notice tomorrow, 22nd July, the earliest the notice could expire would be "after 22nd September" but, to reiterate, it would not mean you had to vacate by 22nd September.

Because a s.21 notice does not end the tenancy at notice expiry, if you wanted to vacate and end the tenancy, you would have to either vacate at fixed term expiry (to avoid a periodic tenancy arising) or, if you remained and the tenancy became periodic, you would have to serve notice to quit - at least one month and also expiring at the end of a tenancy period.

Thanks for that, I'm still a little confused however. If the LL gave me notice today (the 22nd) then when would I have to vacate the property? I'm quite happy that I can give one month notice to quit (obviously) and happy to vacate upon notice properly served. I guess I'm just trying to understand how I explain (in a pleasant and friendly way) to inexperienced LL that I don't have to get out on 2nd Sep.

sham63

Two full months notice must be given, so the 22nd September & not the 2nd Sept as that's not two full months.

Have a look here for a quick guide;

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/ending-a-tenancy-agreement.htm

ViolaLass

If the LL gave you notice today, then that counts the same as notice being given by 2nd August (your next rent day). You would therefore have to leave/he could go to court to get you out from the beginning of October (two months on from August).

Sham63 is wrong, you would not have to leave on 22 Sept as notice has to be served on or by a rent date (and you start counting the months from the rent date) - equally, if you wanted to leave and gave notice now, you would have to pay rent until the beginning of September, not just a month from now (ignoring the fact that you're in a contract that would require to pay until September anyway).

Wobblydeb

Thanks everyone for all your help

sham63 wrote: »

Two full months notice must be given, so the 22nd September & not the 2nd Sept as that's not two full months.

Have a look here for a quick guide;

http://www.tenancyagreementservice.co.uk/ending-a-tenancy-agreement.htm

That link was really useful Sham - I can forward it on to my LL if they get fretful...

G_M

Wobblydeb wrote: »

Thanks for that, I'm still a little confused however. If the LL gave me notice today (the 22nd) then when would I have to vacate the property? I'm quite happy that I can give one month notice to quit (obviously) and happy to vacate upon notice properly served. I guess I'm just trying to understand how I explain (in a pleasant and friendly way) to inexperienced LL that I don't have to get out on 2nd Sep.

Your current fixed term contract expires on 2nd Sept.

IF a valid S21 has been served, and asuming the LL actually wants you to leave (some LLs serve S21 early in the tenancy 'just in case') then no, you do not need to leave on 2nd Sept, but the LL immediately can apply to a court for posession.

If NO (valid) S21 has been served, again, you do not have to leave. On 3rd Sept a Periodic Tenancy would arise, and the LL would then have to serve a S21 giving you 2 full rental periods notice (virtually 3 months) before applying to a court for possession.

may_fair

Wobblydeb wrote: »

Thanks for that, I'm still a little confused however. If the LL gave me notice today (the 22nd) then when would I have to vacate the property? I'm quite happy that I can give one month notice to quit (obviously) and happy to vacate upon notice properly served

If LL served a s.21 notice today, 22nd July, expiring 22nd September, then you'd have several options:

1) Vacate on 2nd September, the last day of the fixed term. The tenancy would end on 2nd September.

2) Remain in occupation after fixed term expiry (which would mean that a periodic tenancy arose), and serve notice to quit on or after 3rd September, giving LL at least one month, and also expiring at the end of a tenancy period. The tenancy would end at expiry of your notice.

3) Do nothing and wait for the LL to obtain a possession order. The LL cannot unilaterally end the tenancy by serving notice alone; he must apply for, obtain and execute a possession order. The tenancy would end on the date the possession order was executed. If you vacated at expiry of the s.21 notice, this would not end the tenancy so you would continue to be liable for rent.

may_fair

ViolaLass wrote: »

If the LL gave you notice today, then that counts the same as notice being given by 2nd August (your next rent day). You would therefore have to leave/he could go to court to get you out from the beginning of October (two months on from August).

Sham63 is wrong, you would not have to leave on 22 Sept as notice has to be served on or by a rent date

No, you're wrong. As I said above "A s.21(1)(b) notice served during the fixed term must give T at least two months and cannot expire before the end of the fixed term. It does not have to expire at the end of a tenancy period; that only applies to s.21(4)(a) notices served during a periodic tenancy." The tenancy is still within the fixed term.

...equally, if you wanted to leave and gave notice now, you would have to pay rent until the beginning of September, not just a month from now (ignoring the fact that you're in a contract that would require to pay until September anyway).

Unless there is a break clause, a T's notice during the fixed term has no effect. The T is liable for rent up to expiry of the fixed term on 2nd September (and beyond, if a periodic tenancy arises).