Valuation Report - not looking good

rdp1980

OK, so we've found a house, put in an offer, had it accepted, and started the ball rolling with applying for the mortgage through the broker at the Estate Agent.

Here's what we've had back from Halifax's valuer:

Valuation & Market Comment
In its present condition I cannot give you a valuation figure.

Matters Affecting Value
There is structural movement in the form of cracking and distortion to elevations. There has also been past underpinning to the rear extension. You now need to get a structural engineer (or chartered building surveyor) to make a detailed investigation providing you with a full report identifying the cause, together with the costs of the work necessary to ensure future stability. I cannot give a valuation until I have seen the report.

Sounds pretty serious, or is it just the way it is worded?
The house was built around 1900-1910 so some kind of settlement is to be expected. If it was just "historic movement" I would be less phased by it, but this report suggests there is still evidence of problems.

I'm going to get on to the mortgage adviser in the morning and see what is involved in arranging the structural survey required. If it is very expensive though I am wondering if it would be best to walk away rather than spend another £1000 or whatever a structural survey costs these days. Obviously if work is priced up this will be taken into account when the property is valued, and in turn would mean I would probably need to re-negotiate on the price offered.

The only cracks we noticed were in the bedroom ceilings, they appeared to be Artexed but just assumed they may have happened from things being stored in the loft or something like that. Maybe the Artex was thrown up to hide the cracks at some point in the past though. Can't say I noticed anything in the extension other than some new plasterboard up (not plastered) which the vendor says was due to some pipes freezing and bursting last winter (pipes which have since been fixed and lagged).

The vendor bought the house about 10 years ago, wondering if maybe something turned up in her survey which resulted in her getting the extension underpinned. Or it could have been before her time and her survey didn't pick up on it.

Any thoughts or advice much appreciated!

hcb42

Personally, I would run a mile from a house with serious movement like this..

rdp1980

hcb42 wrote: »

Personally, I would run a mile from a house with serious movement like this..

I have to admit, that is my gut reaction.

But part of me is curious as to how recent or serious the movements are...

Could it be if they did a crap job of the extension that that is effectively pulling the rest of the house down? Think I saw one of these property programmes where an outside wall tied into the building did something similar.

Another concern would be with it being semi detached, if this house is moving, so is next door's. I guess there would be no guarantee they would be willing to do anything to their property, which I assume would impact on the one I was hoping to buy.

DizzyDasher

Cracks may or may not be a serious problem in a house that age, and it is normal for the surveyor to want to get a structural engineer in. I was pleasantly surprised by the cost of the structural engineer (less than half the cost of the surveyor).

However, if the property is underpinned then my understanding is that it will be difficult to get insurance at a good rate. Moreover, if it has been underpinned and there are still signs of cracking/movement, that is not a very good sign (usually you'd expect people to fix the cracks when they fix the cause of the movement - if there are new cracks is it still moving? Another problem if only the extension is underpinned can be if the extension stops moving but the house is still moving - then you can get cracks between the two).

Maybe the first step is to ask the vendor about the underpinning (probably best through your solicitor, so it's all documented?) I would also give the surveyor a call for a chat to get his opinion on how serious this problem is (they will often be much more forthcoming on the phone than in their report, as they can't get sued for it!) You could also ask him where the most problematic cracking is, and ask for another viewing to go and have a look yourself (it's amazing what you can miss!)

Then you'll have all the information you can realistically get and be able to decide whether to spend any more money on this house or move on...

rdp1980

Thanks DizzyDasher. Phoning the surveyor does sound like a good idea, like you say he can go into more detail verbally without worrying about having to cover his backside so much.

The cracks we spotted in the ceiling were only hairline so didn't concern us when viewing, especially in a house of that age.

Apart from the new plasterboard in the extension we didn't notice anything else offputting, though the kitchen had been replaced during the last 5 or 6 years so guess the new plaster, tiling, fittings etc in there could be covering up a problem.

Thanks for your advice! The insurance thing is something I hadn't considered so I'll have to bear that in mind too.

ruggedtoast

Insurance is a nightmare to arrange for properties with movement. I would expect a significant discount before buying this place.

rdp1980

The price has already been reduced twice quite significantly, but this was due to a lack of viewings so I guess should be treated completely separately and I shouldn't really take that into account. Just not sure if the vendor could afford to drop much more, but then if she doesn't, she's just going to end up going through the same cycle with the next buyer.

ruggedtoast

This is definitely a case for head ruling heart time. Get all the reports and factor in the difficulty of selling onwards.

rdp1980

ruggedtoast wrote: »

This is definitely a case for head ruling heart time. Get all the reports and factor in the difficulty of selling onwards.

Definitely letting the head rule on this one.

Had a couple of unrelated hitches throughout this process so it may just not be meant to happen at the moment.

We have house at the moment so best to stay put rather than rush into something we may regret.

DizzyDasher

Sounds like a good decision to me: I know it's annoying, but it could have been throwing (a lot more!) good money after bad.

We actually bought an old house with a history of movement (likely due to putting bathrooms in upstairs - so very old!) and even that gave me the heebyjeebies - but reading lots of scare stories on the net before our engineer went in and determined that the movement was not likely to be ongoing my one point of comfort was that at least it was not underpinned!

kingstreet

Ask if the vendor got a structural engineer's report when she bought and see if there's any other information with her solicitor in the deeds envelope.

If there is a SER on file, see if the vendor will get the SE to come back and comment on what's happened in the interim.

See what comes back and make your decision then.