School - children skipping years query

chelle230

blue_monkey wrote: »

That is all very well but what happens if they are in year 6 instead of year 4, what do they do when they are in years 5 and 6? They cannot go any higher so will have to, one day, mix with kids of their own age. What happens then?

I think the schools are on the thinking that they should all catch up at some point, so will be on the same level, emotionally, socially and educationally

milliebear00001

Gingham_R wrote: »

Truly gifted children are very different to academically advanced children. They often don't show any academic advancement because their school doesn't cater adequately for them. They are often either sitting 'switched off' at the back or kicking off causing trouble because they're bored.

But they are 'ever present', just as the academically advanced children are. Mensa accepts the 2% of people who score highest in IQ tests - but they don't accept others who are gifted but perform badly in IQ tests (eg because they're also dyslexic). If we're looking at the top 5% of ability to class as gifted that obviously means 5% of all school children - so some schools will have one or two and some will have many more. But almost all schools will have some who are truly gifted and under performing.

Being 'academically advanced' at a particular point in one's school career doesn't mean that will always be the case. Children don't develop in a linear fashion - it is very much a case of fits and starts. Some progress quickly early on and then slow down, equally we see plenty of others who don't 'get going' until KS2, but then fly.

I don't dispute at all that some gifted children under-perform, or that some will suffer from a lack of individual attention. As I've said before though, state schools are more concerned about the 20% of children who are persistently underperforming against the most basic measures. Pragmatically, it is this that means gifted children sometimes get overlooked. It doesn't mean the school don't care - just that they are often fire fighting extreme underperformance from large numbers of children without the staffing or resources to do it properly.

I have many children in my Y5 class who are easily capable of secondary level work - some who are able enough to probably achieve level 6 next year. I like to think I cater for them well and provide a good level of challenge. I am able to this because most of the children in my class are able and doing well. If I had a third of the class with SEN or EAL, then I might be feeling rather differently!

Wilma33

If your children go to university then I think it would be a bad idea for them to go at 16 years old. Just somethng to consider.

meritaten

chelle230 wrote: »

I think the schools are on the thinking that they should all catch up at some point, so will be on the same level, emotionally, socially and educationally

and when are they supposed to do this? ALL of them? is there some magic point at age 10 where suddenly ALL the kids are at the same stage? Not gonna happen!
In the meantime the academically gifted have to socialise with kids a year or two ahead in age and emotional maturity.
To me this smacks of lazy teaching - sorry, teachers out there, but it does! Primary classes are always going to be a mix of the average, the slow, the academically advanced and sometimes (but not often), the truly gifted child. To my mind to move 7 or more pupils each time is a sign that the school is NOT doing its job and they are teaching to a low standard - and in the meantime making parents think that little Johnny or Joanne is a prodigy! thats unfair on the child and the parents!

chelle230

Wilma33 wrote: »

If your children go to university then I think it would be a bad idea for them to go at 16 years old. Just somethng to consider.

I wouldn't want him to go at that age, but he's getting the best start now, and is having the best opportunity available.

I know first hand the disruptive behaviour that can be caused by his brain not being taxed enough and getting bored, since being pushed more and being given the correct work for his mental ability, the change in him is unbelievable.

I'm even having to find workbooks for him to do during the holidays as he can't cope with not doing it.
he'd much rather sit and read a book, or write stories than play with toys, and it's hard work keeping a child like that amused!!

So if the school want to give him extra work and mix him with older children, I am not going to complain about it.

chelle230

meritaten wrote: »

and when are they supposed to do this? ALL of them? is there some magic point at age 10 where suddenly ALL the kids are at the same stage? Not gonna happen!
In the meantime the academically gifted have to socialise with kids a year or two ahead in age and emotional maturity.
To me this smacks of lazy teaching - sorry, teachers out there, but it does! Primary classes are always going to be a mix of the average, the slow, the academically advanced and sometimes (but not often), the truly gifted child. To my mind to move 7 or more pupils each time is a sign that the school is NOT doing its job and they are teaching to a low standard - and in the meantime making parents think that little Johnny or Joanne is a prodigy! thats unfair on the child and the parents!

I can only speak from my own experience, I know the level my son is at. he was walking at 9 months, reading at 3, hitting all his milestones early.
I'd rather he was in a smaller class where he isn't fighting for attention because he is bored of reading books the others are just starting out on, when he was reading them in nursery.

Dustykitten

A couple more thoughts. I'm interested to know how the school are managing their intake.

How is there space for these children to be accommodated in the year above? Is it a single form entry (ie one class of 30 new into the school each academic year)?

Are the classes all of 30?

Are they utilizing the spaces vacated by your child (and the 7 others) in the lower year ie are those classes full?

With regard to 'repeating' year 6 I was thinking along the lines of school trips, topics etc. In our primary these tend to be the same in year 6 each year ie going to a PGL course and learning about WW11 evacuees. I appreciate that Maths for example can be set at many different levels but that could be done in the first instance keeping the children in the class.

Also by skipping a year what do the children miss out in the way of other activities, trips etc. Our school the children only go to swimming lessons in Year 3.

Of course paramount to it all is the happiness of the child. From personal experience when one of my boys was 'choosen' to go into a combined age class because he was one of the brightest ones it ended in disaster. I won't bore you with all the details but he entered year 3 at Sat level 3 in everything and was the still the same level 18 months later.

chelle230

the school my son was at set up a class for reading and writing, it included gifted and talented, but also children who weren't as advanced, so had a mix of reception up to year 3, but was only an hour a day

mancbird

I have a slightly different perspective on this as I skipped a year at primary school.

Personally I don't think it is a good idea as I was bullied by some children who were jealous that I had been put up a year and I found it hard to make friends with children who were a lot older than me (a year or more seems like a lot more when you are only 7).

I ended up repeating a lot of the work I had already done when I got to secondary school as I wasn't allowed to move up there a year early. I spent year 6 repeating work I had already done and although I was in top sets for everything at secondary I found I was repeating work there until I was in year 9. Not ideal, as I wasn't pushed at all academically for the first 3 years of secondary and was actually quite bored a lot of the time

blue_monkey_2

I am wondering if they are a few kids short in the upper years (some may go onto middle school) so they can get more kids from waiting lists in and fiull the class.

They get an amount per child now don't they? Just wondering if they are moving the kids up to get more kids, and therefore more money, in. Interesting really.

Our classes have just been mixed and I am going to 'suck it and see' my DD is an advanced learner but the Y3, going into Y4, has been split and a teacher has gone (on maternity, not replaced). The higher learners have gone in with Y4/5/6. Apparently a lot fo small village schools do it these days. We will have to wait and see if it makes a difference.