Parent stay at home looking after the kids?

BernadetteN

seven-day-weekend wrote:

As regards Incapacity Benefit, if someone's illness/disability does not improve to the level where they can work, why shouldn't they remain on it indefinitely?

I didn't say there should be any time limits set on IB, but the government knows that there is a large percentage of those on IB whose circumstances HAVE improved and that is supposed to be one of the government's tasks over the next few years, to distinguish between those who need IB and those on IB who could work.

I did say that there should be time limits set on how long you can claim non disablitiy/illness related benefts - the welfare state was set up as a fall back for those on hard times, not for those who chose intentionally to remain on these benefits indefinitely, and thsi was the case until Harold Wilson changed it in the late 60s.

Now for anyone who thinks the withdrawal on non disability/illness related after a certain period would result in homelessness and crime, so why do we not see thousands of Poles or Czechs sleeping rough (yes there are a few but not many) who have come to the UK to seek employment and are not entitled when they first arrive to claim our benefits? I am fully aware of the minority of accession state nationals who have come to the UK with the intention of milking the benefits system as soon as they can - I live in Dover so I see and meet them every day but they are thankfully a minority.

milkydrink

Actually instead of making it harder to get benefits would it be more productive to make it financially better for people to work, instead of benefits,
Like raise the minimum wage to £7.50 (something more liveable) & for everyone. Otherwise firms will use youngsters as cheap labour then sack them as the hit 18. Only allow less than £7.50 for children/pupils at for for say paper-rounds, they won't affect the job market under 16. But as soon as they are proper school leaver age 16 & a bit £7.50.

Loads of people would/could come off benefits.

More tax would be paid instead of paid out & the OAPs could be treated a bit better.

BernadetteN

Fran wrote:

Even with the extra you would have got in tax credits for a new baby I can't see how you could have been entitled to £20K of benefits. Can you explain the breakdown of this?

Here are the figures :

Child Benefit for 4 children = £52.55 per week

Child Tax Credit for 4 children = £156.52 per week

Council Tax Benefit = £25 per week

Income Support Personal Couple Allowance = £90.10 per week

Income Support Mortgage Interest after 8 weeks = £61 per week

Free School Dinners for 3 children = £19.75 per week (over 52 weeks)

Free Milk = £4.20 per week

Total £384.12 per week or £19974.24 per annum.

This amount of benefits would have been even more if we had a larger mortgage or a larger rent but our outstanding mortgage is quite small at £61 interest per week so our housing costs are way below average. We are also lucky to have relatively cheap school dinners too! I have not added on the amount of grant I would receive for my eldest child's school uniform either or the £62 a year basic NHS check-up fees for the adults.

jellyhead

and free prescriptions and dental work for your husband (yours would be free until baby is 1 regardless), double the child trust fund for your baby, half price swimming and courses at leisure centre, free college courses.

our school dinners are £8.25 per week each child. did you average yours out over 52 weeks by using the real figure for the 33 (?) weeks they attend school?


20k on benefits, really. that's high! but you wouldn't be allowed to just stay on benefits for no reason, not for years. and if your husband voluntarily gave up his job i think you'd get benefits reduced for a few months, or maybe not if you have children, feel free to correct me.

BernadetteN

jellyhead wrote:

and free prescriptions and dental work for your husband (yours would be free until baby is 1 regardless), double the child trust fund for your baby, half price swimming and courses at leisure centre, free college courses.

our school dinners are £8.25 per week each child. did you average yours out over 52 weeks by using the real figure for the 33 (?) weeks they attend school?

20k on benefits, really. that's high! but you wouldn't be allowed to just stay on benefits for no reason, not for years. and if your husband voluntarily gave up his job i think you'd get benefits reduced for a few months, or maybe not if you have children, feel free to correct me.

Yes school dinners are £1.85 a day and the children go to school for 185 days a year. That makes 1.85 * 185 * 3 = £1026.25 / 52 = £19.75 per week.

Well yes the free prescriptions, I forgot about those, but we are lucky to very rarely every need to go the see a doctor. Only my husband caused our dental bill to go over the basic check-up rate this year so we paid £42.20 for him instead of £15.50 the last time we went to the dentist but that would have been yet another cost to add to the list if we had been on benefits this year.

You also pointed out that I would also have got an extra £250 for the Child Trust Fund and don't forget we would also have been entitled to the Sure Start Maternity grant of £500 and also an extra £545 in CTC for the baby's first year.

It's beginning to look like that extra 5k my husband earned in the first year of our youngest's life above the amount we would have earned if we had been on benefits is actually closer to only 4k, when you include the extra CTC, Sure Start maternity grant, Child Trust Fund, free prescriptions and dental treatement for husband, uniform grant and our less than half price entry to out local Leisure Centre!

And no, we have no intention of my husband giving up his job, I calculated the costs out of curiosity at first but it shows you why some families, especially ones with 4 or more children, make no effort to find employment when they can be paid to sit at home and do nothing. We also have a child who has dyspraxia and is in the process of being assessed for ASD so we could possibly even have qualified for DLA and MA for that son and that also changes the amount of CTC we would have gotten.

jellyhead

if a child gets DLA do you get the same amount of extra tax credit if you're working? or does it reduce if your income is high? would you still get the DLA and MA regardless of whether you work or not?

Fran

jellyhead wrote:

if a child gets DLA do you get the same amount of extra tax credit if you're working?

Yes, DLA is not income related at all but is for the extra costs of a disability.

robindunne1

conradmum wrote:

I agree it doesn't make any sense. Also, how can a family on benefits receive 2040 in tax credits if they aren't paying any tax?
Maybe if your calculations made sense your MP would take your letter more seriously.
Families with two working parents get more tax relief because there are two people contributing to the economy rather than just one.

This is why tax crdits are a complete mess. It is entirely possible for someone to receive more tax credits than they pay in tax. Attaching the word "tax" to a benefit does not mean anything. It is simply a means tested benefit related to income.

robindunne1

BernadetteN wrote:

Here are the figures :

Child Benefit for 4 children = £52.55 per week

Child Tax Credit for 4 children = £156.52 per week

Council Tax Benefit = £25 per week

Income Support Personal Couple Allowance = £90.10 per week

Income Support Mortgage Interest after 8 weeks = £61 per week

Free School Dinners for 3 children = £19.75 per week (over 52 weeks)

Free Milk = £4.20 per week

Total £384.12 per week or £19974.24 per annum.

This amount of benefits would have been even more if we had a larger mortgage or a larger rent but our outstanding mortgage is quite small at £61 interest per week so our housing costs are way below average. We are also lucky to have relatively cheap school dinners too! I have not added on the amount of grant I would receive for my eldest child's school uniform either or the £62 a year basic NHS check-up fees for the adults.

So with a slightly smaller income closer to the average (24k) and higher housing costs (£130 p/w) closer to the average mortage it is entirely possible to be better off living off the state.

Wonder why so many people live off benefits?

jellyhead

- b-
it might be interesting to work out different figures, but for equal circumstances - not with one getting disabled money and the other not.

it mayb be that only the families who are repaying a student loan end up better off on the dole (so they don't*--