Rules : Allowing Rental Viewings

FireWyrm

Hi All

I'm comming up to the end of an AST which will expire on 28th October 2011. I'm buying a new house and we are very close to exchange which will hopefully happen by the end of the month (but it's not guaranteed). I have not informed the letting agency yet that I will be surrendering the house at the end of the AST due to not knowing how they would react (they've been pretty funny about the silliest things so far).

The last time we re-signed the AST contract, it said in the small print that we will have to allow viewings on the rental for up to 2 months before exit. This means that we will be getting a new AST request in August (towards the end I believe) and at that time, I will be forced to declare our intention to leave. At that point, they will demand admittance for viewings and I'm not happy about this. I know this is a rental, but it's still my home for the duration of the rental and I just dont like people trapsing around my home unaccompanied. I will be at work most the time and so unable to be there for the viewings.

What are the rules? Do I have to allow them entry into the house 2 months before the end of the tenancy? To my mind, it's my home until the 28th of October, after which time, they can market and view to their hearts content, but the contract is pretty clear on this point. I dont see that I have allot of say in it. Does anyone have any advice?

copier_guy

doesnt allowing viewings intrude upon your quite enjoyment of the property?

GAH

You don't have to allow viewings at all. But perhaps you could come to an arrangement with LL/LA to do viewings on a certain certain day and certain time block that you are there.

That way you have got a little piece of mind that you only have to put say 30 minutes a side a week for viewings on a specfic day and then it benefits everyone.

Also bare in mind a lot of people dont start looking for a new property until about a month before the property is ready, so you probably wont have many requests for August/Early September.

FireWyrm

Thanks, that would be a good idea. I have some work to do before exit such as doing some painting to return the walls to pristine condition etc. I got stung for 3/4 of my deposit on a previous rental due to fines of £50 for each tiny little mark. Ideally, I dont want anyone around until after that, so I guess I'd better get my skates on and work on it asap. The LA is just really funny about this sort of thing, for instance, I didnt even know that I didnt have to re-sign the agreement at the end of the AST last time. The main reason for the move is that they've just cut it from 12 months to 6 months which meant a £60 charge per contract. They did this for no reason that I could assertain, but assured me that it wasnt a prelude to eviction....

The LA have already sent us a snotty letter because I wrote to them telling them I couldnt be there for an inspection and that they should reschedule it. They insisted that they could enter the house any time they wanted to carry it out and I reminded them that they couldnt. It got quite nasty at one point. They really put pressure on you to do as they tell you, not what I have learned the law allows.

There's slightly more to this because my husband and I are going to have to have split living for August/Sept/Oct. Basically, he will have to move into the new house while I babysit the old one. We're not allowed to leave the house empty for any meaningful length of time, which is fair enough. Since I'm paying the rent anyway, I might as well stop on until 28th October. The house will be virtually empty, other than an inflatable mattress for me and basic stuff like a plate or two, but I still dont like the idea of it just being open season for them to walk in.

theartfullodger

You don;t have to permit any viewings, inspections, survey, visits etc etc.. The contract clause about viewings is unenforecable, effectively, but the agent may not know that as the agent may have no qualifications, no experience, no training of any nature and no criminal records check or decent personal hygiene..


Landlord does not have to give you a reference or be helpful in promptly sorting out the admin & deposit return..

Landlord/agent can apply for court order to be allowed in but won't get it in time..

Suggest a little gentle negotiation/discussion - agree sensible times (eg Saturdays 10-11 ) and see how much of a pre-written good reference and rent reduction you can get. Don't be surprised if agent/landlord is very unhappy... (all together now, ah, shame..)

Cheers!

Artful (LL since 2000)

FireWyrm

theartfullodger wrote: »

...and no criminal records

Jeez! I didnt even think of that! :eek: Dont they HAVE to have this? It is a position of responsibility after all - walking into someone's house.

theartfullodger wrote: »

Landlord does not have to give you a reference or be helpful in promptly sorting out the admin & deposit return..

Yeah...tell me about it. They generally try to be as obstructive and obtuse as possible in my admittedly limited experience. It seems the LL views the deposit as his by right most the time. The last one tried to have us fined for marks to the wooden floors which were UNDER the varnish he applied before we moved in. I'm obviously not worried about a reference either. I didnt get one from the last lot and it didnt seem to matter.

theartfullodger wrote: »

Landlord/agent can apply for court order to be allowed in but won't get it in time..

They have a key. There's no actual way to stop them I've found. The last landlord used to just let himself into the house whenever he pleased. Gave me the fright of my life just after we moved in because I was putting washing away, turned around and found some bloke walking around behind me. I didnt even know he WAS the landlord. I complained to the LA, but they just said that he has a right to enter and there was nothing I could do about it.

theartfullodger wrote: »

Suggest a little gentle negotiation/discussion - agree sensible times (eg Saturdays 10-11 ) ....rent reduction you can get.

This intrigued me....rent reduction? How?

theartfullodger wrote: »

Don't be surprised if agent/landlord is very unhappy... (all together now, ah, shame..)

I honestly dont care very much whether his nose is out of joint or not. It's mine until the 28th. After that, he can have it and do as he wishes, but until then, he can whistle.

theartfullodger

They have a key. There's no actual way to stop them I've found.

Change the locks/barrels: Keep old locks/barrels and replace when you leave. If you have written (yes, write, keep copy, but write - maybe email as well) to LL/agent declining any visits without your prior written agreement and they then try & get in a visit to Mr Plod would be sensible IMHO.. (But expect a decent reference even less...). Any tenancy clause saying you can't change locks is unenforceable...

“Protection from Eviction Act 1977”
Section 1

• • Unlawful eviction and harassment
  • s.1(3A) (as was amended by the Housing Act 1988) which states:
    "the landlord of a residential occupier or an agent of the landlord shall be guilty of an offence if he does acts likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of his household."

Cheers!

Artful

PS Re criminal records etc.. (they could all be registered sex offenders for all we know..) the last government was going to bring in agent regulation but this lot decided to drop the plans... Barking ... Nope, no control, nor any control on keeping tenants/landlord's money in separate accounts (deposits, rents..). Agents do go bust and cause (mainly landlords..) no end of trouble & cost...

PPS Rent reduction - Depends how hard-nosed you are.. Try "You can have every 2nd Sunday 10-11 am for 25% off, every Saturday 10-15:00 for 50% off...or otherwise f*** off and no viewings big-nose...". You are simply making an offer, LL can simply agree/refuse/counter-offer .

FireWyrm

theartfullodger wrote: »

PPS Rent reduction - Depends how hard-nosed you are.. Try "You can have every 2nd Sunday 10-11 am for 25% off, every Saturday 10-15:00 for 50% off...or otherwise f*** off and no viewings big-nose...". You are simply making an offer, LL can simply agree/refuse/counter-offer .

:eek: Holy excrement! I didnt know you could do that! I was just planning to ask them to stay out until I'm ready, but didnt really expect them to actually abide by my request.

Isnt holding them up to ransom dangerous? They could just withold all of my deposit as a matter of principle. The last lot did. No matter how much I argued, I still ended up paying £50 for each mark on the wall, disposing of the LL's rubbish in the cellar and £400 for a new carpet because of a tiny snag in the carpet. When I tried to fight it, the LA said that the deposit people would agree with them and I'd lose all my deposit in that case in penalty fees. So, I could pay half of my deposit for the fines, or lose it all if I fought them and lost, plus the LL's costs apparently.

theartfullodger

Yes it's dangerous (and my fellow LLs will probably think less of me for suggesting it) but there's regulations regarding deposits ( I assume your deposit is protected & you're in England/Wales..), so your deposit should be OK. Was there a decent inventory & photos at the start?? If not then you will be very safe as the LL/agent will have almost no case.

Renting out property is a business, and deals have to get done from time2time.. (at least that's what those conservative "free enterprise" guys say..). Hmmn... never "free", rarely "enterprising"..


My son & his 2 house-mates pointed out (after some checking by me,.) to his agent that their S21 notice was invalid (wording..) and thus they didn't have to leave but would be prepared to do so on the requested date for a decent reference & a month's rent.. There was an unholy row, names called etc but in the end they said yes. Mind you in that case the LL was planning to sell, completion 2 days after move-out date so there was SERIOUS money at stake..

FireWyrm

theartfullodger wrote: »

Yes it's dangerous (and my fellow LLs will probably think less of me for suggesting it) but there's regulations regarding deposits ( I assume your deposit is protected & you're in England/Wales..),

Yes, the deposit was 'protected' for all the good it did. I was told that the deposit arbitration would automatically agree with the LA's assessment and it was my burden of proof to show reason why I should keep my deposit. I was also told that you automatically lose it all if you go to arbitration and you lose because you have to pay the LL's costs too.

theartfullodger wrote: »

Was there a decent inventory & photos at the start??

Inventory yes, photos no. I went round with the inventory just before exit. I had the carpets cleaned and I cleaned every room and floor so that it gleamed, but it didnt seem to do any good. It was a freshly painted and decorated rental when we moved in - we had to wait for the plaster to dry first. I was told we had to return it in *exactly* the same condition. When I queried this as we'd lived in it for 3 years, they said it was my problem and I should have repainted the house. The penalty for this was £50 per mark. I was actually there for the inventory and she actually counted each and every one. The snag in the carpet was there when we moved in, but not on the inventory so we had to pay for replacing the whole carpet in the room which i thought was harsh, but for the same reasons above couldnt do much about it. I spent about 2 hours arguing on the phone with them, but they said this was the way it was and to basically suck on it.

theartfullodger wrote: »

If not then you will be very safe as the LL/agent will have almost no case.

I guess I should have been on this forum then. I was told there was no case and that I could argue but it would cost me all of it. I had no choice but to agree. It seems the LL believed that the deposit was basically his to do as he pleased. The LA did return some of it to us, but nowhere near what we were hoping for. The LL wanted to charge us for marks to floors under the varnish and the washing machine breaking 2 days after we left, but the LA told him he couldnt which was a small mercy I guess....and that's a 'good' LA, a reputable company apparently.

may_fair

FireWyrm wrote: »

What are the rules? Do I have to allow them entry into the house 2 months before the end of the tenancy? To my mind, it's my home until the 28th of October, after which time, they can market and view to their hearts content, but the contract is pretty clear on this point.

There is no law which says that a LL cannot retain a contractual right of access to conduct viewings.

However, the tenant has a 'competing' right to quiet enjoyment and it would be a foolhardy LL who entered against the express wishes of the tenant. If you refuse access and change the locks, the LL would need to obtain a court order to enforce his right of access, but as court procedure is slow it's unlikely to be worth the hassle.

If you demand a rent reduction (as theartfullodger suggests) in exchange for permitting viewings, something to which you have already contractually agreed, the LL would probably have a case to claim the unpaid rent back at the end of the tenancy. If you refuse viewings altogether, the LL might have a claim for loss of rent as a result of your breach of contract (i.e. preventing LL from finding a replacement tenant asap).

It is important always to behave reasonably. If you allow one 2-hour window per week for viewings, when you are present, then this is enough to comply with the contractual obligation to allow viewings.