reservation deposit. legally getting it back?

blueled

Jumping directly to the facts:

1. A month ago I viewed the property (in England) for the first time. Needed to be painted, new carpets etc. from EA. I didn't sign any contract of course, before seeing the renovation myself. Agreed to pay their holding fee and signed an application form stating (among others):

Please complete and return the attached application form to the office as soon as possible, together with a payment of £100.00 per person to reserve the property, Subject to Contract.

.....

As a prospective tenant, personal or company, I agree with The Agent that:
1. The information given on this Tenancy Application is correct and complete. I understand that it will be relied upon by The Agent and their Clients in determining my suitability as a tenant. I have paid the minimum sum of £100 to The Agent as a reservation deposit, subject to
contract and satisfactory references.
2. The reservation deposit is not refundable if I should withdraw from the proposed Tenancy, but, if for any reason (other than no. 3 below) the prospective landlord does not proceed it will be refunded. Your payment received will be off set against your (security) deposit amount upon commencement of the let, payable upon a successful application.
3. The reservation deposit will not be refunded and the proposed letting will not proceed if at the date hereof there are any satisfied or unsatisfied High Court or County Court Judgements or Default payments recorded in my name, or criminal record found against me.

2. After they got the property renovated, I viewed it again for the second time. INSIDE the flat everything perfect. Out in the corridors, when entering and leaving, the smell of weed being smoked was unbearable. I didn't comment on the smell to the EA and left suggesting we meet soon again for the contracts.

Obviously, if the EA told me in advance other tenants in the building were smoking weed, I wouldn't pay a reservation fee. I only found out myself in the second visit, after paying the holding fee. Deliberately, I went back to the property and sought tenants that were living there already, who confirmed that 2-3 people are smoking weed in the corridors, especially in the winter when it is cold for them to go out in the garden. Now it's July, and it smells, imagine what happens during winter.

Now, I am allergic to odd smells and have asthma. I was lucky enough to view the property for a second time to find out something they deliberately hided.

Am I bound to what I have signed and should I forget the 100 pounds or could I get them back? It's not so much for the amount, but for them not getting away with money in their pockets without doing anything at all (How can they prove that they took the property off the market indeed and did not show it around to others as well? The "to rent" sign never left from outside.) Even if they say that they lost money for not renting it, that's not true, cause only now the finalised the renovation, the flat was not ready before today.

I would really appreciate if someone is aware of a regulation or sthng that overrides things like that EA's put prospective tenants to sign for. Thank you in advance

PasturesNew

It's one of the downsides of renting small flats.... most of your neighbours will be smoking weed, or dealing it. It's what puts me off renting to be honest, having to live close to people like that.

Yorkie1

I don't think you've got a chance of getting your deposit back. The smell wasn't evident on the first occasion - you can't prove that the EA knew about it, and they've got no duty to inform you about the weed even if they did know. Only if you asked the specific question, and they lied, and you can prove that they knew they were lying, might you have much of a leg to stand on I think, unfortunately.

real1314

blueled wrote: »

Jumping directly to the facts:

Agreed to pay their holding fee and signed an application form stating (among others): The reservation deposit is not refundable

The bit in bold is the most relevant fact.

Now, I am allergic to odd smells and have asthma.

There is no such thing as being "allergic to odd smells".

I was lucky enough to view the property for a second time to find out something they deliberately hided.

There is no evidence that they deliberately hid anything.

Nice attempt at using asthma as an excuse, but it won't work. It does a disservice to those with genuine astma problems. :cool:

geoffky

skin up and chill out....many many people smoke weed...but i think its antisocial,, drinkers are the ones you have to worry about.

blueled

Yorkie1 wrote: »

they've got no duty to inform you about the weed even if they did know.

Quoting from homeoffice.gov.uk/drugs/drug-law

The Misuse of Drugs Act states that it is an offence to:
(...)
allow a house, flat or office to be used by people taking drugs

Let's see how the EA like it when I will notify the LL too, for the reason I am withdrawing my interest. By the way, these EA manage the whole block of flats (16 in total). Do you still all believe that they were not aware of the smell?

Yorkie1

I am familiar with s.8 of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, thanks very much.

You need to look at the precise terms of the section:

"A person commits an offence if, being the occupier or concerned in the management of any premises, he knowingly permits or suffers any of the following activities to take place on those premises, that is to say—A person commits an offence if, being the occupier or concerned in the management of any premises, he knowingly permits or suffers any of the following activities to take place on those premises, that is to say—
...
(d)smoking cannabis, cannabis resin or prepared opium."

When you say the EA manages the premises, what do you mean? Presumably that they organise the lettings? Presumably they are not the actual management company? Or the owner? On whose behalf do they act?

Furthermore, what you have cited in any event merely creates a criminal offence. It doesn't place any obligation on an EA to disclose anything to a potential renter whatsoever. I still think you're on a hiding to nothing.

blueled

I didn't mean to offend you by citing the Act, apologies if you felt so.

When I said the EA manages the premises, I meant that he is acting on behalf of the LL (who is a constructions company) to find tenants and to sort out any issues during the tenancies. He is collecting rent, etc. By that, I wanted to express that he is visiting the building every now and then and that he is not that stupid not to be aware of the fact "2-3 tenants" are smoking out in the corridors during the summer months (imagine what happens when it gets colder).

I am struggling to understand how an act that is a criminal offence is not deteriorating the state of the premises in terms of property value, etc. and is not harmful for the EA loosing prospective tenants. Is it because "a hell of a lot people are doing it", the rest of us should put up with it? Paranoia.

Thanks for getting in the trouble to reply, I appreciate it.

TehJumpingJawa

Move in, and then notify the EA that this is happening?

If EA ignore it, they're breaking the law - sue them.
If the tenants stop - problem solved.
If the tenants continue they'll be evicted - problem solved.

casper_g

TehJumpingJawa wrote: »

Move in, and then notify the EA that this is happening?

If EA ignore it, they're breaking the law - sue them.

You can sue people for breaches of civil law. You can hope to receive compensation for losses their actions have caused you to suffer. I can't see that the OP would have suffered any financial loss. She could report the EA for breaching the criminal law, and seek to have them prosecuted (not sued). They might be fined, but I don't see how this would benefit the OP.

TehJumpingJawa wrote: »

If the tenants stop - problem solved.
If the tenants continue they'll be evicted - problem solved.

This course of action might tend to antagonise the OP's new neighbours, though....

Yorkie1

blueled wrote: »

I didn't mean to offend you by citing the Act, apologies if you felt so.

When I said the EA manages the premises, I meant that he is acting on behalf of the LL (who is a constructions company) to find tenants and to sort out any issues during the tenancies. He is collecting rent, etc. By that, I wanted to express that he is visiting the building every now and then and that he is not that stupid not to be aware of the fact "2-3 tenants" are smoking out in the corridors during the summer months (imagine what happens when it gets colder).

I am struggling to understand how an act that is a criminal offence is not deteriorating the state of the premises in terms of property value, etc. and is not harmful for the EA loosing prospective tenants. Is it because "a hell of a lot people are doing it", the rest of us should put up with it? Paranoia.

Thanks for getting in the trouble to reply, I appreciate it.

No offence taken

You are however confusing the EA's role towards prospective tenants with the criminal law.

The EA's duty when showing prospective tenants round is to the person who instructs them - i.e. the LL. If he told a direct lie to a direct question from you then you might have grounds to try to get out of the contract on the grounds of direct misrepresentation (like the thread elsewhere on here about 2 parking spaces becoming one) (although I'm not an expert on this). But that isn't the case here. You are trying to say that the EA was under a duty to tell you about the weed smokers when that simply is not in law the case.

The criminal law states that those concerned in the management of a property commit a criminal offence. The EA is an agent of the management company without the power to make independent decisions. In my view that means that the EA is not sufficiently proximate to the management of the property to be liable for the offence. However, even if I'm wrong, that still doesn't mean that they are under a duty to tell you about it.

You are right that these activities might mean that the property is less attractive to potential renters or purchasers, but again that's not a direct concern of yours. Your only concern is whether to take the flat or not. In your place I wouldn't want to take it, I do agree.

If you feel that strongly about it, you could always report the weed smoking to the police under the Crimestoppers number.